operating systems without systemd

[fruitofloom]

Thanks.
I think of giving Salix a try for a few days now.
Gentoo keeps me busy enough, so neither Slackware nor any of the BSD's is an option right now.
Also looking more close at refracta-with-sysv (which, as far its me, isn't much work, as i know Debian, close to "in-and-out". At least what i have to do daily).
Hence Salix might take a few days, weeks or even months ...

[Linadian]

Thanks.
I think of giving Salix a try for a few days now.
Gentoo keeps me busy enough, so neither Slackware nor any of the BSD's is an option right now.
Also looking more close at refracta-with-sysv (which, as far its me, isn't much work, as i know Debian, close to "in-and-out". At least what i have to do daily).
Hence Salix might take a few days, weeks or even months ...

The main reason I am doing all that stuff is so others that come to this thread see it's possible to dump Debhat. Ever hear of the 'comfortable shoe' syndrome? That's where you are in a relationship and you know you should get out but you don't because it feels like a comfortable pair of warm slippers, until those slippers give you toenail fungus, lol. If Debhat decides to adopt a CHOICE policy again, I'll consider coming back.

[dzz]

The latest Exe GNU/Linux is (~99% current) Debian Jessie with Trinity Desktop.. *systemd* is excluded.

http://exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/

[fruitofloom]

The latest Exe GNU/Linux is (~99% current) Debian Jessie with Trinity Desktop.. *systemd* is excluded.

http://exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/

Duh ...stupid me.
added.

[Job]

So you clowns are abandoning ship? Is that it? Debian for me.

[fruitofloom]

in my case: did abandon.

I am looking at the solution by refracta (fsmithred) and exegnulinux (by dzz), to give them feedback, but that is as close i will get to Debian the next couple of years.

[twoflowers]

So you clowns are abandoning ship? Is that it? Debian for me.

You know "The Man from earth"? I'm courious who'll get the virtual heart attack in the end

[saulgoode]

So you clowns are abandoning ship?

In my case, the ship is abandoning the clown.

[fruitofloom]

lol at signature.


that one:
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -- Brian Kernighan

[RU55EL]

in my case: did abandon.

I am looking at the solution by refracta (fsmithred) and exegnulinux (by dzz), to give them feedback, but that is as close i will get to Debian the next couple of years.

Jumped ship already! I plan on running systemd free wheezy, at least until it isn't supported anymore.

I admit that I have added PC-BSD and freeBSD to my main machine, each on it's own partition. Gotta plan for the future...

[oswaldkelso]

[thenewguy]

I love the cartoon, it seems to sum up the situation nicely. Anyone else notice the ship has an HMS prefix, but the flag its flying is American?

I've been playing with TrueOS (a user-friendly derivative of FreeBSD) and I am happy with it. I am in the process of moving my Debian servers (and my client's servers) over to TrueOS. It's a fairly small learning curve to migrate from Debian to FreeBSD and makes for a more stable (as in less change) platform.

[Job]

oh too funny
On another note I "want" to believe that the Debian people will do the right thing.

[Linadian]

Thank you for that, saved the cartoon for historical reasons.

This from Dragora's Wiki faq:

Dragora is an independent project for GNU/Linux distribution that was started from scratch without being based on an existing distribution project. We avoid having to depend or inherit the technical and ethical issues of a given distribution project. Since it is an independent project, we are not tied to purely commercial interest, purposes or decisions, which could negatively affect our user base.

*scratching head*, didn't that used to be Debian?

[fruitofloom]

kelsoo, did you create the picture? Looks like it.
Thanks (if not, thanks for posting).

-
nother note: dragora is sure worth to have a look at. It ain't easy though (just another reason that makes it worth to consider, will keep out the idiots).

[Linadian]

Giving PCLinuxOS Mate and LXDE versions a test too, already tried the Mate, it's actually not too bad, I'm giving it second place in my Debhat alternatives list. The only real problem I have with PCLinuxOS is it's aimed at n00bs, has tons of GUI tools and settings which I personally don't need. I'm still leaning heavily towards Salix Xfce because it 'feels' the most like a Debian Xfce install. PCLinuxOS's repository has plenty of refined (tweaked to 'blend' really well with PCLinuxOS) apps to offer, all 3 DVD apps for example (DeVeDe, Bombono and DVDStyler), pysolfc was already installed and working in the Mate edition.

My conundrum:

PCLinuxOS (Mate)=will fit on a CD, stable, can be a little bit dated at times but very little maintenance (almost none) required, being rolling is a plus, lots of popular apps in their repository (you'll want to change the icon set, see below), tons of GUI tools for n00bs.

Salix (Xfce)=small ISO download but won't fit on a CD, DVD required, also rolling after install, can be more up to date (apps installed through Sourcery), very lean and fast, has a 'just enough' apps/tools policy, a bit less repo apps options than normal, a few packages refused to compile and install with Sourcery (DeVeDe and Bombono installed fine, DVDStyler did not, nor did pysolfc), nothing of huge importance but it still sucks a little (there are other solitaire apps, I'll live, lol), binaries almost always install without problems (in general, any distro). Binaries are limited but other apps available through Sourcery, which is easy to use but a roll of the dice if your chosen app will get installed or not (Sourcery has a tendancy to nag for dependencies installed through Gslapt, but unlike single instance apt in Debian, you can have both of them open and go back and forth between them).

I only recently discovered pysolfc and I really like it, not only that, DVDStyler is handy to have as a 3rd option to DeVeDe and Bombono, also liking the idea of a headache free install (PCLinuxOS will auto install a proprietary video driver if it can, Salix uses the GPL for live and install), although I'm not a huge fan of Mate (prefer Xfce), it's gtk, btw, the 'elementary' icon set is available in the PCLinuxOS repo as an install (as opposed to downloading the elementary icon zip from github and manually copying to /usr/share/icons), the default icon set are ugly as sin in the Mate version of PCLinuxOS, you'll want to change them right away, unless you like a minimalist European-ish look, they're strange looking indeed.

Bottom line, PCLinuxOS Mate is like having Stella (old Gnome 2.x) on your machine but way more tweaked, modern and pretty, with more supported and available apps (the only readily available transcoder in Stella is Handbrake, yikes), the only plus for Stella in this head-to-head, it'll install on a fakeraid. Stella is basically frozen in time and based on CentOS/Redhat 6.6 (NO systemd), which does rub me the wrong way a little, the whole idea is to run from Redhat, not embrace it, old version or not.

Edit: After reading my own post several times (lots of proof reading, lol), I'm going to put PCLinuxOS Mate as my Debhat replacement frontrunner, it's polished, way more apps, rolling and stable, I may not even bother 'testing' PC-BSD, it wiped an old storage drive without warning me during a recent install attempt, this is NOT ok. Besides, ZFS is a handful to deal with.

[runfrodorun]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents that I'm really happy this discussion is happening. The GNU ideology has seemed to show that KISS is the way to go when writing software, and an init system should be no exception. I think if we want systemd to go that's going to take a collective effort to use distributions/kernels that do not support it or will not adopt it, otherwise package maintainers will probably become lazy and not bother to support other init systems. It's been a really political takeover of linux and I'm very upset about it I hope debian realizes that it's not too late to create a new init system or move to another one before it's too late.

[oswaldkelso]

Mate is all geared up for systemd so you need to be sure it will still run without it or your wasting you time

[mmix]

thanks for the info.
so is there some list about DE without systemd?

--
PS: to avoid such lockdown(vendor-lock) scheme,
i am using dwm/openbox/plan9port.
in LMDE, using cinnamon, not sure how far going on.

[Linadian]

Mate is all geared up for systemd so you need to be sure it will still run without it or your wasting you time

Thanks for that info, will have to look in to it, and there's always the PCLinuxOS LXDE version, it too is gtk, I've tried LXDE before and I know my way around it, I just prefer Xfce. If PCLinuxOS stays non-virusd, they'll have to drop their Mate version if Mate caves to virusd too.

Maybe I'll give PC-BSD Xfce another shot, this is depressing the $#1+ out of me.

Edit: FreeBSD 10.1 released! Release announcement here, read specifically the dvd1 section:

This contains everything necessary to install the base FreeBSD operating system, the documentation, and a small set of pre-built packages aimed at getting a graphical workstation up and running.

There's a separate DVD for UEFI users, I have my machine set to legacy BIOS on purpose. FYI, dvd1 has Xfce and KDE packages included, Distrowatch's package list here. I like this, this is good, downloading now.

Edit 2: What Texstar (Bill Reynolds of PCLinuxOS) said about systemd (December 10, 2013) here in this forum post.