operating systems without systemd

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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mmix » 2014-11-29 11:21

oh joy! pure debian lover rejoice rejoice!

Devuan: Debian Without Systemd
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTg1MDQ
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby dzz » 2014-12-01 02:22

Someone mentioned grml. I got the latest grml32-full_2014.11.iso (Jessie-based with sysvinit). On two different machines, one Wheezy and one Jessie, in a virtualbox, boot hangs before even a console prompt.

Can anyone else here test and confirm that?

(apparently) similar problems have been seen.. with recent refracta and exegnu jessie-based test builds, using sysvinit (since util-linux 2.25x appeared)

Has anyone here produced a working jessie sysvinit build using official live-build (or any other method) recently?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby twoflowers » 2014-12-01 07:32

This almost soundy like systemd creep.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby pcalvert » 2014-12-01 08:30

dzz wrote:Someone mentioned grml. I got the latest grml32-full_2014.11.iso (Jessie-based with sysvinit). On two different machines, one Wheezy and one Jessie, in a virtualbox, boot hangs before even a console prompt.

Can anyone else here test and confirm that?

I can confirm. I just tried running it in KVM.

I tried to attach a screenshot, but got this message:
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.

CORRECTION: It works fine using KVM. The first time I tried it, I didn't give the VM enough memory. I just tried again, this time giving the VM 512 MB of RAM -- there were no noticeable problems.

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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby schnuller » 2014-12-07 08:30

distributions using eudev:

1. AUSTRUMI switched to eudev in March 2013 (see package list for the 2.6.8 release).

2. Parted Magic switched to eudev in August 2013.

3. Quirky (experimental version of Puppy Linux) switched to eudev in December 2013.

4. 0linux switched to eudev in February 2014 (see base packages for the eta release).

5. Linux From Scratch (standard version) switched to eudev in March 2014 (see this commit).

6. Funtoo Linux switched to eudev in June 2014.

7. CRUX switched to eudev in July 2014.

8. Void Linux switched to eudev in July 2014 (see this commit).

9. GNU OS switched to eudev in September 2014.

10. NuTyX switched to eudev in October 2014 (see system packages for the Saravane release).

11. Puppy Linux (standard version) switched to eudev in October 2014 (see package list for the 6.0 tahrpup release).

12. Manjaro Linux (OpenRC edition) has used eudev since the initial release in December 2014.


http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-10 ... a6c4750351

Next problem will be dbus, huh?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mmix » 2014-12-07 15:02

kill dbus would be cool, thanks to X11/Xorg,
it would be easier than systemd/ms-gui based system.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby twoflowers » 2014-12-07 15:41

I don't use dbus on FreeBSD.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby TobiSGD » 2014-12-07 17:01

mmix wrote:kill dbus would be cool, thanks to X11/Xorg,
it would be easier than systemd/ms-gui based system.

And here we see that again. Can you please explain in which way systemd is related to the MS GUI?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mmix » 2014-12-07 22:21

i can't, time will tell.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-12-09 04:54

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but here is another OS for your list fruitofloom, DesktopBSD. It's not even in the DW distro submission waiting list, not sure why.

Edit: Umm, the last release was 1.7 in 2009, maybe that's why, but the site says 2.0 is coming...weird, kinda looks abandoned.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby twoflowers » 2014-12-09 08:36

DesktopBSD is abandomed. It installs and works pretty well, but any attempt to update breaks the system.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby edbarx » 2014-12-09 11:14

I think, at this particular time, when GNU/Linux is undergoing changes that impact choice, the only feasible option is to stick with Debian, while opting to use only the software that one approves of. Discontent will motivate coders who are discontent about the way GNU/Linux is taking, to create other solutions that work without needing systemd & co. However, one has wait for such solutions to evolve. In my case, I am thinking about the possibility of creating an init system for my needs, in the event I am contrained to, but it doesn't look like I will need to take that path. Devuan still needs to get rid of dbus and it looks this will be quite a challenge.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby schnuller » 2014-12-09 17:53

edbarx wrote:I think, at this particular time, when GNU/Linux is undergoing changes that impact choice, the only feasible option is to stick with Debian,.

It might be that is what you want to do.
But "the only feasible option" ? Rather not.
One migth stick to debian for many reasons. But that one reason, it is the only feasible option, is simply not a good one.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mmix » 2014-12-09 18:08

i believe in devuan doing one thing well. and freebsd too.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby tomazzi » 2014-12-09 23:33

. Russia
TobiSGD wrote:
mmix wrote:kill dbus would be cool, thanks to X11/Xorg,
it would be easier than systemd/ms-gui based system.

And here we see that again. Can you please explain in which way systemd is related to the MS GUI?


But of course systemd is related to MS GUI, but it may not be visible at first sight - replacing init scripts with unified set of symbols allows to reletively easily create a gui for managing services (what is a fundamental part of server management tasks) - and I suppose this is one of key targets for systemd devs.

One may wonder why is that so important - I think, there are at least few plainly practical reasons:
1. The world is moving away from closed-src solutions (there's even an official note in this matter made by Eaton, in which they are explaining why they've donatad Debian. Russia, China are moving all their servers to Linux - although it may not be a good example, the numers are just huge)
2. In such situation MVP certificates are worth nothing - and there are hundreds of thousants of MVPs who knows nothing about Unix/Linux shell scripting - they are potentially wasted as human resources in the incoming era. They can only click with the mouse... <simplification of course, but not that far from realitty>

So I suppose that this is a plan for RedHat (but not only them): re-use winblows admins who have experience and are trained in handling stressing situations, but are unable to understand/learn how to use Linux. This can be especially true, if we consider a fact, that after something like 20 years of development MS created only a weak substitution for Linux/Unix shell : PowerShell. PowerShell is not very usable for admins, because on one side, for the decades nobody expected the winblows admins to be programmers, and on the other side PowerShell is nothing more than CINT (not to say that MS just stolen/bought the solution - as they have used to do - IE, SysInternals, just to name few).
Systemd opens the linux world for ex-winblows admins (maybe not yet at the moment), since it allows them to learn few simple keywords and become admin again.

(supplement: how many companies are now running winblows on servers? less and less: IBM, HP, Oracle, RedHat are selling Linux based servers <yes, IBM gave up on AIX>)
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