Debian User Forums

Posted: **2015-01-14 03:59**

I am fine with the multiple personality disorder problem.
I should get more calm and not delete useraccounts in a fury (but, the bad news, i can't see that happen). Or delete them and then really stay away.

Probably really makes sense to copy the list, insert what is missing ...
I haven't seen the list would be that big, btw. I assumed it would be a couple of distros only (doesn't give me much hope for the future, but as of now no-systemd is not that much of a problem).

Posted: **2015-01-14 07:41**

Job wrote:I am enjoying gNewSense on a spare machine and I have to say this is probably what Debian should have been, mean and simple.

I had not heard of this one before.
At gnewsense.org, it looks like it installs Gnome by default? So it doesn't seem particularly aimed at avoiding systemd (or being mean and simple), unless I'm missing something?

Posted: **2015-01-14 10:04**

goulo wrote:
Job wrote:I am enjoying gNewSense on a spare machine and I have to say this is probably what Debian should have been, mean and simple.
I had not heard of this one before.
At gnewsense.org, it looks like it installs Gnome by default? So it doesn't seem particularly aimed at avoiding systemd (or being mean and simple), unless I'm missing something?

gNewSense is basically Debian with a freed kernel (no binary blobs or prop. firmware). The main 'selling point' is that it runs on the Yelong MIPS based netbooks (completely free BIOS) as well as Intel arch.

gNewSense is a version behind Debian. gNewSense 3.x ('Parkes') is basically Squeeze recompiled (FSF rules say that a 'fully free' distro must be self-building). The current gNewSense 4.0 alpha ('Ucclia') is basically Wheezy with just the main repo and no binary blobs or prop. kernel code. The default will install Gnome, but many use lighter wm based desktops. The *packages* that have built in the alpha work fine (I have it on my test laptop) but the 'alphaness' is to do with dependencies and getting certain key packages (e.g. iceweasel) to build. The gnewsense-dev and gnewsense-users mailing lists are where the action is. There are archives of those lists a Google away.

systemd removal is not so far as I'm aware a goal for gNewSense, which, I imagine will track Debian fairly closely. Sam Geeraerts (sole developer) is hoping to 'catch up' with Debian stable in stages as time allows.

http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/pages/gNewSense.html for more.

Posted: **2015-01-14 17:46**

keithpeter wrote:
goulo wrote:
Job wrote:I am enjoying gNewSense on a spare machine and I have to say this is probably what Debian should have been, mean and simple.
I had not heard of this one before.
At gnewsense.org, it looks like it installs Gnome by default? So it doesn't seem particularly aimed at avoiding systemd (or being mean and simple), unless I'm missing something?
gNewSense is basically Debian with a freed kernel (no binary blobs or prop. firmware). The main 'selling point' is that it runs on the Yelong MIPS based netbooks (completely free BIOS) as well as Intel arch.

gNewSense is a version behind Debian. gNewSense 3.x ('Parkes') is basically Squeeze recompiled (FSF rules say that a 'fully free' distro must be self-building). The current gNewSense 4.0 alpha ('Ucclia') is basically Wheezy with just the main repo and no binary blobs or prop. kernel code. The default will install Gnome, but many use lighter wm based desktops. The *packages* that have built in the alpha work fine (I have it on my test laptop) but the 'alphaness' is to do with dependencies and getting certain key packages (e.g. iceweasel) to build. The gnewsense-dev and gnewsense-users mailing lists are where the action is. There are archives of those lists a Google away.

systemd removal is not so far as I'm aware a goal for gNewSense, which, I imagine will track Debian fairly closely. Sam Geeraerts (sole developer) is hoping to 'catch up' with Debian stable in stages as time allows.

http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/pages/gNewSense.html for more.

The DE is Gnome 2.x which is a welcome home for me. I just don't know how long they will keep Gnome 2 around at least I feel at home. No unnecessary clicks here.

Posted: **2015-01-14 17:50**

golinux wrote:schnuller aka fruitoftheloom, nadir (and many others) you really need to keep better track of such things. Don't you ever tire of this multiple personality disorder thing?

I never knew nadir was schnuller

. Now that Deutsche intonation makes sense.

Posted: **2015-01-14 19:24**

Job wrote:The DE is Gnome 2.x which is a welcome home for me. I just don't know how long they will keep Gnome 2 around at least I feel at home. No unnecessary clicks here.

gNewSense 3 will replaced I imagine by gNewSense 4 (wheezy based) when the latter is released. CentOS 6/Stella Linux 6 would probably be the place to go for Gnome 2 (updates until 2020, Stella provides all the multimedia, but smaller repositories, e.g. no Shotwell or Hugin because of no mono libraries &c).

Posted: **2015-01-15 04:02**

golinux wrote: Don't you ever tire of changing usernames?

fixed it for ya

Posted: **2015-01-15 06:19**

keithpeter wrote:
Job wrote:The DE is Gnome 2.x which is a welcome home for me. I just don't know how long they will keep Gnome 2 around at least I feel at home. No unnecessary clicks here.
gNewSense 3 will replaced I imagine by gNewSense 4 (wheezy based) when the latter is released. CentOS 6/Stella Linux 6 would probably be the place to go for Gnome 2 (updates until 2020, Stella provides all the multimedia, but smaller repositories, e.g. no Shotwell or Hugin because of no mono libraries &c).

I just gave gNewSense 3.1 amd64 a live spin on my latest machine (see infamous sig, lol), anyway, it actually ran pretty good, but the old kernel (2.6.32.x) doesn't support any of the mobo or CPU sensors (except the SATA Seagate HDD temp) and it wasn't 'scaling' my processor like newer kernels do, especially kernels with firmware, the CPU idles at 1.4GHz (0.92V Vcore) under Debian 7.8 and throttles up quickly when required (this is a good thing, the CPU lasts longer, runs cooler and uses less electricity, I would venture to say gNewSense is not very 'green' for this reason). I test installed a bunch of stuff while live, it handled it pretty well. Then I cheated, I added the dmo squeeze repo, lol, installed DeVeDe, Bombono and DVDStyler for schizz n giggles, they all opened up normally. There was one annoying little head scratcher, Iceweasel is so old (3.5.x I think), it doesn't even display DuckDuckGo's main home search page properly, wtf is up with that?! Of course one could add the Iceweasel backport but that would kind of defeat the purpose of using gNewSense in the first place.

I should mention I added iommu=soft to the live kernel boot line, I didn't test without that 'fix', and the VIA chip USB 3.0 ports worked, I was a little amazed at this since the kernel is so old.

On another note, if gNewSense 4.x will be based on Wheezy, that means it will be like a libre LTS Wheezy (without the Debian branding of course) AND, since Wheezy is pre-virusd, so will gNS 4.x be virusd free.

Posted: **2015-01-15 06:59**

Linadian wrote:. . . AND, since Wheezy is pre-virusd, so will gNS 4.x be virusd free.

Not true! There are some virusd elements in Wheezy. libsystemd-login0 is installed on my Wheezy and Synaptic lists 9 systemd libs that aren't installed but could be if an app pulls them in as a dependency.

Posted: **2015-01-15 15:29**

golinux wrote:
Linadian wrote:. . . AND, since Wheezy is pre-virusd, so will gNS 4.x be virusd free.
Not true! There are some virusd elements in Wheezy. libsystemd-login0 is installed on my Wheezy and Synaptic lists 9 systemd libs that aren't installed but could be if an app pulls them in as a dependency.

You're right, the systemd creep is there, but according to some loud mouth 'gurus', all that shim crap is not actually a full blown poetthatd implementation until the main kernel barnacle systemd is installed, their words, not mine.

Funny story, when I was a kid, I swam in a lake with my family on vacation, a leech found its way in to my swimsuit and attached itself to my schlong, my mom used common table salt to get it off, why am I telling you this? Because that's what systemd is like, the leech in my story, a f*%ing borg barnacle leech POS bloat.

Write your own OS Lennart, stop leg-riding everybody else, Linus hates you, you little weasel.

Posted: **2015-01-15 22:43**

Linadian wrote:...if gNewSense 4.x will be based on Wheezy, that means it will be like a libre LTS Wheezy...

Not if Sam Geeraerts achieves his desire of tracking debian *stable*. gNewSense has been playing catch up since the transition from Ubuntu base, but the gap is closing...

I *think* that gNewSense pulls the source packages from the .0 version of each debian release (Debian 6.0 for gNewSense 3 and 7.0 for gNewSense 4) then they do their own patches. The FSF criteria require that a distro can self build so everything is compiled from source for the various arches.

Iceweasel 3.5 is as you say ancient, so I compiled Gnu IceCat 17 for gNewSense 3.x [1] when I used gNewSense for day to day use (getting on for a year). Sam is trying to get an iceweasel 31 to build for gNewSense 4 (remember they want the Yeelong MIPS arch) but is having problems. Google the gnewsense-dev mailing list archives for details.

[1] http://www.gnewsense.org/Documentation/ ... tSeventeen

Posted: **2015-01-22 16:15**

Linux Mint Debian Edition 2 ("Betsy") will track jessie but use SysVinit:
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2764

Posted: **2015-02-01 22:33**

There's a lot of pages to this so I'm sure it's been noted but if you just reinstall sysvinit-core in debian, you can boot with sysvinit. This doesn't change the fact that everything is compiled against libsystemd0, but in my mind its an acceptable abuse.

Now if we can find operating systems that don't have pulseaudio too I'd be super happy. Let's all go to the hurd!

Posted: **2015-02-01 22:47**

runfrodorun wrote:
Now if we can find operating systems that don't have pulseaudio too I'd be super happy.

Tiny Core, Linux from Scratch, probably Puppy Linux.

Posted: **2015-02-02 03:15**

mardybear wrote:
runfrodorun wrote:
Now if we can find operating systems that don't have pulseaudio too I'd be super happy.
Tiny Core, Linux from Scratch, probably Puppy Linux.

And PCLinuxOS has the 'package' task-pulseaudio-remove which you 'install' (not really, it's just a poettaudio remover script, or pulsebarnacle killer, lol), it works, I've tried it, system sounds and ALSA still OK after.

Posted: **2015-02-02 04:24**

mardybear wrote:
runfrodorun wrote:
Now if we can find operating systems that don't have pulseaudio too I'd be super happy.
Tiny Core, Linux from Scratch, probably Puppy Linux.

I wouldn't bet, still didn't get my head into emerge and equery, but i think Gentoo can be added to the list:

Code: Select all

user$ equery list alsa-utils
 * Searching for alsa-utils ...
[IP-] [  ] media-sound/alsa-utils-1.0.28:0.9
user$ equery list pulseaudio
!!! No installed packages matching 'pulseaudio'
 * Searching for pulseaudio ...
user$

(If Gentoo can be added, Funtoo can be added too. And what else is based on Gentoo. I think gnu.org lists a free distro ... ).

Posted: **2015-02-02 04:38**

does any distro require pulseaudio?

Posted: **2015-02-02 15:57**

mean_dean wrote:
does any distro require pulseaudio?

Probably not...maybe some gaming or multimedia distributions - don't know. But i do know Pulseaudio can be difficult to strip out of a system, so for me easier to use a distribution that doesn't have it pre-installed.

Interesting quotes from the Debian wiki, with parallels to systemd:

The sound stack in Linux has been the weakest link in Linux-as-a-desktop, and documentation on the web is often conflicting, out-of-date and dispiriting. Part of the problem is that pulseaudio was released before it was ready. The good news is that as of wheezy it pretty much works as advertised.

ALSA was working pretty well until the push to use pulse audio - pulseaudio was somewhat of a mess in squeeze.

Source: https://wiki.debian.org/Sound

and from: http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-work ... -explained :

There's a problem with the state of Linux audio, and it's not that it doesn't always work. The issue is that it's overcomplicated. This soon becomes evident if you sit down with a piece of paper and try to draw the relationships between the technologies involved with taking audio from a music file to your speakers: the diagram soon turns into a plate of knotted spaghetti. This is a failure because there's nothing intrinsically more complicated about audio than any other technology. It enters your Linux box at one point and leaves at another.

...sounds eerily familiar to the current state of Linux.

Posted: **2015-02-02 16:09**

But i do know Pulseaudio can be difficult to strip out of a system, so for me easier to use a distribution that doesn't have it pre-installed.

You can easily install Debian without pulseaudio pre-installed.

As far it is me, the way i have used and installed Debian, it would be the default (assuming the word default makes any sense when it comes to debian. It doesn't).
(it would have been the same way for many others. But there is a change in culture, it seems).

Posted: **2015-02-06 04:27**

I just had to share this, a guy on twitter in this tweet claims this is from an actual Redhat slideshow presentation!

Here's another funny from twitter...

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