operating systems without systemd

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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby A_T » 2015-02-07 12:05

I just updated Sid and grub gave the options to boot Debian or Debian (systemd).

I chose the former and the command
Code: Select all
cat /proc/1/comm

returns
Code: Select all
init
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2015-02-07 20:13

Now THIS is an interesting tweet, check out the tweeters profile, this guy is no tinfoil hat. I just wish I could read German, the linked article looks interesting.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby oswaldkelso » 2015-02-08 19:34

No It's not.
In a (as always with Poettering systemd appearances) impossibly overcrowded space systemd mastermind and Red Hat developer Lennart Poettering announced at the FOSDEM 2015 demolition of the systemd history of last year, told of the most important innovations and announced UEFI Boot mechanism integration in the near future.

"You will hate me for it, I know, but I think it's so great, what we're doing here!" - With these words the controversial systemd developer Lennart Poettering presented in the Developer Room H.1302 FOSDEM 2015, the most important innovation of recent and upcoming systemd agenda: the integration of UEFI certificates and a complete chain of trust is because all Above: "We will integrate into systemd rubber boat I want no one else on my Fedora have, let's kick out Microsoft and the NSA.."


Fedora, systemd monoculture will not be locked down by Microsoft or NSA even though they pay Microsoft for their first boot key.... Makes me feel so safe
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2015-02-10 15:47

A_T wrote:I just updated Sid and grub gave the options to boot Debian or Debian (systemd).

I chose the former and the command
Code: Select all
cat /proc/1/comm

returns
Code: Select all
init

Well that's interesting, hopefully that's an option, skip right over systemd infested Jessie and head straight to Sid. Maybe the Debhats have been noticing the exodus and are smelling the coffee. Personally. I don't need this roller-coaster ride, or an NSA friendly init, I'm still going PCLinuxOS, I know I keep saying that, I just have to get around to it, tear down the SSD Raid, format the drives, disconnect one SSD to save as backup hardware, etc, et-f%#@ing-cetera, more pain in the @$$ than meets the eye, but it will be done. :?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Ibidem » 2015-02-15 00:15

There's a pre-alpha iso of devuan that's been mentioned on the list. At this point it's ~Debian with sysvinit preinstalled (still partly infected, but Xfce as default DE), but they've rebuilt util-linux without systemd:
http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/ ... til-linux/

I've pointed my sources.list over there and added their keyring, but it seems it's not yet fully set up:
Code: Select all
W: Failed to fetch http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/InRelease  Unable to find expected entry 'main/binary-i386/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)

W: Failed to fetch http:/packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/Release.gpg  Unable to connect to :http:

W: Failed to fetch http:/packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/jessie/main/source/Sources  Unable to connect to :http:
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Ibidem » 2015-02-16 05:03

Regarding the musl-based distros:
* the next major version of Dragora is going to be musl/openrc based.
* alpine linux feels a bit like debian, at first; it's musl/busybox/openrc, with uselessd in testing/.
Instead of apt, it uses apk--a custom package manager, providing dependencies but not suggests/recommends/priorities.
Packages are all in an Ports-style tree, and it's quite easy to get them in.
* sabotage linux...as far as I can tell, it uses Busybox init.
* I've heard of one RPM-based musl distro (IIRC, OpenRC + Busybox).
* there's some work on a musl-based branch of gentoo.
* bootstrap-linux is a self-hosting system in six packages: linux, musl, busybox, gcc, binutils, and make.
Mostly, it's OpenRC or a busybox-based init solution.
uselessd will run on musl, but isn't widely deployed; it's basically a "non-contagious" form of systemd.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-02-16 10:28

I don't know if it's been mentioned (I'm too lazy to check) but I'm posting this from TinyCore 64-bit:
Code: Select all
tc@box:~$ ls -l /sbin/init
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Jan  4 07:26 /sbin/init -> ../bin/busybox

Looks "clean" to me...

:D
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby oswaldkelso » 2015-02-16 17:48

Regarding Dragora 3

There is No systemd in Dragora 3
Dragora3 will use sysvinit, with perp, and eudev


http://dragora.org/wiki/doku.php/faq/d3

Personally I've been very happy with Dragora 2 and Runit
http://smarden.org/runit/

edit. It will not use uselessd. My mistake
Last edited by oswaldkelso on 2015-06-09 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby twoflowers » 2015-02-23 07:52

As KDE is moving to systemd, you'll most likely have to remove any OS that comes with KDE4 :(
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mardybear » 2015-02-27 06:47

KolibriOS is a tiny yet incredibly powerful and fast operating system. This power requires only a few megabyte disk space and 8MB of RAM to run. Kolibri features a rich set of applications that include word processor, image viewer, graphical editor, web browser and well over 30 exciting games. Full FAT12/16/32 support is implemented, as well as read-only support for NTFS, ISO9660 and Ext2/3/4. Drivers are written for popular sound, network and graphics cards.

Have you ever dreamed of a system that boots in less than 10 seconds from power-on to working GUI, on $100 PC? Applications that start instantly, immediately after clicking an icon, without annoying hourglass pointers? This speed is achieved since the core parts of KolibriOS (kernel and drivers) are written entirely in FASM assembly language! Try Kolibri and compare it with such heavyweights as Windows and Linux.

KolibriOS has forked off from MenuetOS in 2004, and is run under independent development since then. All our code is open-source, with the majority of the code released under GPLv2 license.

http://kolibrios.org/en/

Would be classified as other and obscure, not Linux, assembly language. Distrowatch indicates:
Package version table for KolibriOS is not available as the project develops and uses its own applications.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=Kolibri
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby JLloyd13 » 2015-02-28 03:09

oswaldkelso wrote:No It's not.
In a (as always with Poettering systemd appearances) impossibly overcrowded space systemd mastermind and Red Hat developer Lennart Poettering announced at the FOSDEM 2015 demolition of the systemd history of last year, told of the most important innovations and announced UEFI Boot mechanism integration in the near future.

"You will hate me for it, I know, but I think it's so great, what we're doing here!" - With these words the controversial systemd developer Lennart Poettering presented in the Developer Room H.1302 FOSDEM 2015, the most important innovation of recent and upcoming systemd agenda: the integration of UEFI certificates and a complete chain of trust is because all Above: "We will integrate into systemd rubber boat I want no one else on my Fedora have, let's kick out Microsoft and the NSA.."


Fedora, systemd monoculture will not be locked down by Microsoft or NSA even though they pay Microsoft for their first boot key.... Makes me feel so safe


Into secure boot (i.e. MS crap trying to control our bios?) ??? seriously?? Oh crap, I may just actually abandon Debian if that actually happens. Why must they keep reaching for more and more of our userspace?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby pcalvert » 2015-04-08 23:51

“Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good
in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become
rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.”
— Abraham Lincoln
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby weedeater64 » 2015-06-06 22:24

Void Linux does not belong on this list. Which has me wondering how many others don't belong either.

Code: Select all
$ locate systemd
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/00systemd-bootchart
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/00systemd-bootchart/module-setup.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline-ask.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline-ask.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-cmdline.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-emergency.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-emergency.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-initqueue.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-initqueue.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-initqueue.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-initqueue.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-mount.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-mount.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-mount.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-mount.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-mount.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-mount.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-mount.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-mount.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-pivot.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-pivot.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-pivot.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-pivot.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-trigger.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-trigger.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-trigger.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-trigger.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-udev.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-udev.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-udev.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-pre-udev.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-shutdown.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-shutdown.service.8
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-shutdown.service.8.asc
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/dracut-tmpfiles.conf
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/emergency.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/initrd.target
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/module-setup.sh
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/rescue.service
    /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98systemd/rootfs-generator.sh
    /usr/lib/systemd
    /usr/lib/systemd/system
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-cmdline.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-initqueue.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-mount.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-pre-mount.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-pre-pivot.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-pre-trigger.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-pre-udev.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/dracut-shutdown.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-cmdline.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-initqueue.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-mount.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-pre-mount.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-pre-pivot.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-pre-trigger.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/initrd.target.wants/dracut-pre-udev.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/dracut-shutdown.service
    /usr/lib/systemd/system/wacom-inputattach@.service
    /usr/libexec/xbps-triggers/systemd-service
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-06-06 22:52

I forgot about this thread...

Manjaro now offers a version using OpenRC instead of systemd.

https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?titl ... figuration
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby ttk » 2015-12-20 21:33

schnuller wrote:
mardybear wrote:
runfrodorun wrote:
Now if we can find operating systems that don't have pulseaudio too I'd be super happy.

Tiny Core, Linux from Scratch, probably Puppy Linux.

I wouldn't bet, still didn't get my head into emerge and equery, but i think Gentoo can be added to the list


Slackware, too. It doesn't ship with pulseaudio, though I know some users install pulseaudio for Skype and such.

Relevant to this topic: Slackware-current recently switched from pre-systemd udev to eudev, which suggests the distribution will remain systemd-free for some time to come. Patrick is keeping his cards close to his chest, though, so still no official position.

Earlier in this thread, someone suggested Slackware installs 8GB to avoid dependency issues, which was an exaggeration. It's true that a "full" Slackware install will install a lot of packages, and this is strongly recommended to avoid dependency issues when installing packages dynamically. The full installation DVD is less than 4.7GB, though, and by dropping the "kde" and "kdei" sets this drops to less than 2GB (trivially done). XFCE is provided as a lightweight alternative to KDE, and there are a few non-DE WM's provided as well, so there's no dearth of options.

Also relevant to this topic: Over on the Gentoo forums site there is a thread keeping track of distributions which have opted to use eudev in lieu of udev. The most common reason for doing this is to avoid the systemd dependency, though the overlap is not perfect: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7648392.html

Also relevant: A (partial?) list of distributions which have declared their intention to avoid systemd: http://www.gabordemooij.com/index.php?p ... om_systemd
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