operating systems without systemd

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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby edbarx » 2014-11-03 21:57

I have just tried to install SID on a free partition to try removing systemd. The installation completed with some problems but it was completed successfully. However, when I booted the installation several daemons failed to load or reported errors. There were more than five red errors during systemd's booting sequence! After that, I replaced systemd with sysvinit in a chroot notwithstanding the DDs are becoming allergic to support chroot. Ignoring all the warnings that systemd is a core component, I typed "Do, as I say!" and proceeded. Then, I installed sysvinit, and oddly enough, this stale old initialisation package worked without the least shred of errors!

The problem with systemd is that it is still ALPHA grade software: Debian deserves far better than that!

My next move will be to upgrade the test Jessie installation to SID to conduct more experiments on the removal of systemd.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-03 23:21

The thread was supposed to offer a list of
"operating systems without systemd"
not about discussing good or bad things about systemd
(those discussions are getting old).

Imho:
You can run Sid and Testing without systemd and libsystemd0, but it is a dirty workaround and you don't know when it will fail on you.
Right now it might work. In two weeks it might be possible no more.

That is: For people who already decided to give up on Debian GNU/*Linux*.
Hence i put it in the offtopic section.
It is related to Debian in so far as it is for people who used Debian in the past. And now are looking for better solutions.

---
In general i think a thread should take it's own course, whatever it's original intend might have been.
Just saying.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby golinux » 2014-11-03 23:24

It's easy to get all these systemd threads confused . . . ;)
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-03 23:25

Heck, i even start to complain at places where pretty much no one knows what that Linux thing is ...
(and sure not about the difference between distros, or init-systems, or such ).

So yes:
I think what edbarx tries is possible (for sure if libsystemd0 gives no worries). Probably a good idea too.
Not sure how hard it will be in the long run. Not sure if it is worth it.
Hence i decided to leave Debian. Might well be i will be back (as soon there is a serious change according to the main problem: systemd).
Give me convenience or give me death.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-03 23:43

golinux wrote: ". . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first."

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.
golinux wrote:In with both feet huh?! You could tone down the formatting a bit . . . ;)

Yeah, you have a point, lol, will do. :mrgreen:
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-03 23:47

fruitofloom wrote:The thread was supposed to offer a list of
"operating systems without systemd"
not about discussing good or bad things about systemd
(those discussions are getting old).


I am trying to stay on topic, sorry, speaking of that, I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby golinux » 2014-11-04 00:27

Linadian wrote: . . . I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.

Guess you missed this. kFreeBSD might not be around for long . . .
kFreeBSD
========

We remain gravely concerned about the viability of this port. Despite
the reduced scope, we feel that the port is not currently of sufficient
quality to feature as a fully supported release architecture in Jessie.
However, we accept that our published view of the port has not been as
'clear and unambiguous' as we would wish.

We therefore advise the kFreeBSD porters that the port is in danger of
being dropped from Jessie, and invite any porters who are able to commit
to working on the port in the long term to make themselves known *now*.
The factor that gives us greatest concern is the human resources
available to the port.

Porters of any architecture need to bear in mind that being part of a
stable release is a long commitment to both taking care of stable and
oldstable, and continuing development in sid. It has implications for
the security team, release team, DSA and other parties.

The urgency of this matter cannot be over-stated. We will assess the
viability of kFreeBSD in Jessie on or after 1st November, and a yes/no
decision will be taken at that time. This will not be a full
architecture qualification, but a simple decision on whether or not the
release team's concerns have been adequately addressed.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-04 01:01

golinux wrote:
Linadian wrote: . . . I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.

Guess you missed this. kFreeBSD might not be around for long . . .

DAMN! There goes the wind out of that sail. :(

Looks like it's off to Gen/Funtoo, Slack/Slax/Salix land or PC-BSD. :?

Thanks for the heads up, was just about to set up my old machine on the dining-room table to do a Debian kFreeBSD test net install, might as well not bother now, at least not with the Debian disk, have a PC-BSD install disk ready and waiting. Unfortunately, PC-BSD's default desktop is KDE, which I dumped a while back for Xfce, oh well, at least I know KDE inside and out already. :?

This is depressing the $#1+ out of me. :(
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby harrycaul » 2014-11-04 01:49

PC-BSD now offers a full selection of DEs, including Lumina.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117620
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-04 04:02

harrycaul wrote:PC-BSD now offers a full selection of DEs, including Lumina.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117620

Thanks for that. Another reason to use PC-BSD is their kernel version is a full version better (10 as opposed to Debian's 9), it's more likely to get along with our hardware.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-04 16:43

To me the announcement about kFreeBSD only states that it will not be an official release.
In the past i didn't care if Hurd or kFreeBSD were official releases or not.
After the official release of sysdebian i sure couldn't care less what Debian releases officially
(in the past an official release granted a certain amount of quality)

Not sure what is going on with the according Gentoo ports.

Imho:
If one wants a longtime solution, then one of the BSD's is the way to go.
If one only wants to change from Debian Linux, from systemd, then it doesn't matter if one uses, example, Gentoo/Slackware, or Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. For the former the future without systemd is not granted, for the latter the mere existence is not granted at all (though, imho, it can be expected it still will be there).
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-04 17:23

fruitofloom wrote:Not sure what is going on with the according Gentoo ports.

Not good, from Distrowatch's Gentoo 20140826 package list...
• sysstat-11.0.0
• Sys-Syslog-0.330.0-r1
• system-config-printer-common-1.4.3
• system-config-printer-gnome-1.4.3-r1
• systemd-215-r3
• systemsettings-4.11.11
• sysvinit-2.88-r7
• taglib-1.9.1-r2
• taglib-extras-1.0.1
• tali-3.12.2

I think you are right, something Slack* or a *BSD is the way to go, the last bastions of sanity. Bye Debhat.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-04 19:42

Nah, gentoo's default init system is still openrc.

With ports i meant the one with hurd and the one with freebsd as a kernel. Not if you can run Gentoo without systemd (of course you can:.
Code: Select all
gentoo-laptop user # uname -r
3.14.16-gentoo
gentoo-laptop user # equery l systemd
!!! No installed packages matching 'systemd'
 * Searching for systemd ...
gentoo-laptop user # equery l openrc
 * Searching for openrc ...
[IP-] [  ] sys-apps/openrc-0.12.4:0


)
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-06 05:56

fleabus wrote:
harrycaul wrote:+1 for Salix Xfce here. I also like their Sourcery GUI for slapt-src.

Been using Salix myself since August or so. I had installed Slackware a few times and began exploring their documentation, then discovered Salix -- since I cut my teeth on Debian, its dependency resolution made sense. Also using the Xfce version. spi is nice, checks for both binary packages and available slackbuilds.

I just burned and am posting live from the newly released (Nov 4/14) official (not beta) Salix 14.1 Xfce Live amd64 DVD (790MB) (from this Salix forum post:"Sadly, the Xfce edition has grown in size and it can no longer fit in a single CD, so you now need a DVD if you want to burn it to an optical medium"), n neeee waaaay...it's a blast, you folks are right about Salix being a great distro with great tools, I was looking in gslapt for DVD authoring apps (DeVeDe, DVDStyler, Bombono), there was only Handbrake, I got discouraged until I opened Sourcery, what a great tool! Sourcery compiled and installed Bombono while live! The only CL I saw was the output window, lol. This live DVD is really loving my new machine (see sig), good graphics, nice and quiet (cooling fans are idling). I think I found my Debhat replacement, unfortunately it doesn't 'see' the Raid controller but who cares, I'll take one SSD out and put it in my old machine and load Salix on it too, the six (yes, six) clunky HDDs will be storage (1.5TB in the new machine and 1.2TB in the old machine). I'm tired of the virusd drama already and I'm acting now. I left Windows because of proprietary software dictatorship(s), it's a slippery slope, I hate slippery slopes, too dang slimey!

This is why I love live versions of distros, kick the tires, instead of wasting time, brain cells (what little I have left, lol) and nerves.

Check out all the panel goodies in the pic below, love those monitors!
Click on the image after it loads to go full size...
Image

I tried Mint 17 Xfce on my old machine but it just felt too buggy, bloated and 'dirty' (sys-buntu-d, two jabs with one stick, lol). Mint-buntu-d is for timid n00bs, Salix is right up my lean and mean alley, no muss, no fuss, right to the point, a clean and stable OS. :D

Edit: I like watching the Sourcery output, it's quite interesting to see how apps/packages are built, I hate the way everybody wants to hide anything CL now, that keeps the sheeples uninformed.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-07 00:44

Here's another virusd free distro for your list fruitofloom, Stella, see this post for more info. It's based on CentOS 6 which is supported to 2020 and has multimedia extras, etc. :mrgreen:

:!: Edit: See the screenshot and commentary in the above mentioned post link, Stella 6.6 is going on my old machine for sure! :!: :idea: 8)
Last edited by Linadian on 2014-11-07 04:49, edited 1 time in total.
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