operating systems without systemd

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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fleabus » 2014-11-07 03:27

From the Funtoo FAQ:
Do you support systemd?

Part of the distinctiveness of Funtoo Linux is its dependency-based OpenRC init system,
so changing this would make it something other than Funtoo Linux.
So we do not support systemd as part of Funtoo Linux.

http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ

Not sure If I can get up off my lazy butt enough to do fully source-based, but Funtoo sounds good,
and I will if I have to, as the next-to-the-last resort. :wink:

For those who like Gnome, they also say they "fully support running GNOME 3.12+ without depending on systemd".

So, still plenty of choice out there as far as I'm concerned. Back to my eternal reading addiction... :)
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby dasein » 2014-11-07 03:41

It's both interesting and informative that a small respin like Funtoo (it's what, like four guys?) can do so easily what others seemingly cannot.

Kinda shoots the whole "noooo... it'd be tooooooo burdensome!" schtick all to hell.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fleabus » 2014-11-07 04:17

dasein wrote:It's both interesting and informative that a small respin like Funtoo (it's what, like four guys?) can do so easily what others seemingly cannot.

Kinda shoots the whole "noooo... it'd be tooooooo burdensome!" schtick all to hell.

Yes it does. Amidst all the screaming and caterwauling out here, there are folks just calmly taking apart a couple of things here and there, or resetting some build configs and out pops this and that, well whaddaya know. An awful lot can happen in a couple years, I think it'll be ok. Slackware and Gentoo certainly have their share of alarmist bs going on in their forums, but for the most part they seem to be taking it all in stride. Outrage at the inferior quality of our favorite new software along with the failure to learn from previous mistakes and so repeating same seem to really be the main themes of discussion. Not a coder or dev, so the details are mostly over my head, but I've been around long enough to get the gist. These feelings coincide with mine.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-07 07:20

I was told in IRC that funtoo really is mainly gentoo + additional features.
If i wouldn't use them i wouldn't figure out the difference.

If don't know funtoo at all and not enough about gentoo to be able to comment on it
(the person who told me should know it, btw, his name was robbings, iirc).

One can use a prebuild kernel when using funtoo (for example the debian one).
That looks like an advantage over gentoo (though i haven't looked into genkernel yet ...).

I also looked at SystemRescue CD, but it was a pain to install it (and later to install packages). I was told it is rather a thing on it's own (though based on Gentoo, the differences seem to be bigger). Well: it is supposed to be a liveCD, init it?

Liberte Linux seems to be based on Gentoo too. I didn't look at it yet.

-
The installation process and the software management will keep the most stupid people out. I hope.
A chicken can install Debian? Indeed. And chickens are what one will find there. That was different in the past:
https://wiki.debian.org/TheFable
Oh, the irony ...
Give me convenience or give me death.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-07 20:19

Installing Xfce on FreeBSD 10.1rc4 right now (on my old machine), if the command line scares you or you don't have a way to search or print instructions, it's not for you. FYI,
Code: Select all
# cd <directory>
and
Code: Select all
# make install clean

work a lot better than
Code: Select all
pkg install <package>

the last one is like saying 'just stick a blob of code anywhere and don't bother to actually configure it', phht (the first method didn't even pull in xorg, wtf?!). Also, if you don't have the patience or the time to sit at the machine and hit enter [OK] at stupid questions every 10 or 20 minutes, it's really not for you (I asked for a DE to be installed, a whole phrukkin DE, you'd think the FreeBSD people would make eveything auto yes so one could walk away from the machine and have a coffee, but nooooOOOOOO). I'm plugging on with the install attempt anyway because I don't give up that easy and this 'noise' doesn't scare me, sometimes I like white-knuckling it (HDD 5 in the machine could have been trashed for all I know, FreeBSD says it's installing on the 4 HDD Raid 0, I'll have to wait for thousands of lines to scroll by before I get to find out, lol). :roll:

Edit: I must have said [OK] to something I shouldn't have a thousand [OK]s ago, I'm getting a ton of development docs and samples installed for some reason. I might sound angry but I'm actually writing this with a 'comedy of errors' humorous slant. :wink: :mrgreen: Believe it or not, I might even try the Debian kFreeBSD again, now that I got my feet wet, it would probably be a lot easier since it's supposed to use apt...I think. :?
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-07 21:08

You can't compare Debian GNU/kFreeBSD with FreeBSD
apt-get install [packagename]
To give an example.
A few things are similar, of course. You might have guessed it: anything which relates to the kernel.

imho, of course.

---
btw: I for one didn't do "make install clean" when i used FreeBSD
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/ports.html
mainly 5.5. I guess: to each his own.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-07 23:33

fruitofloom wrote:You can't compare Debian GNU/kFreeBSD with FreeBSD
apt-get install [packagename]
To give an example.
A few things are similar, of course. You might have guessed it: anything which relates to the kernel.

imho, of course.

---
btw: I for one didn't do "make install clean" when i used FreeBSD
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/ports.html
mainly 5.5. I guess: to each his own.

Thanks for the link, this is quite the learning curve. I aborted it anyway because I made a mistake somewhere and was getting a ton of unwanted stuff=bork, lol. Unfortunately, the Wheezy kFreeBSD uses the 9.x FreeBSD kernel, which conveniently DOESN'T 'see' my old Intel fakeraid, son-ah-mah-beech, lol. Gunna try the PC-BSD 10.1rc2, see if I have any luck with that, if not, I guess I could find the time and attempt the FreeBSD again since it likes my old fakeraid. Practice makes perfect! The whole idea is to find a replacement for my new machine before Franken-Jessie is unleashed on the world, Ima workin on it. :mrgreen:

Edit: You're right, it helps to understand what's going on when doing anything, I gotta do some serious reading. :mrgreen:

Edit 2: Update...my brief but interesting and eventful trip in to FreeBSD land, I did get FreeBSD 10.1rc4 installed on my old machine's fakeraid (4x320GB HDDs), it's all good and cool and stuff, but it really makes you appreciate already put together distros. I had the luxury of printing a ton of howtos with my new machine and to DuckDuckGo answers to problems. Anyway, installed xorg, got it working, installed Xfce, no GUI login manager, installed xdm, xdm took users and pws but went no where (yet another command line edit of a config file to give permissions, yada yada). Bottom line, it's a lot of work, if you hate typing or white knuckle CL-ing, don't bother. I did make it in to Xfce...as root, it wouldn't let me in as my normal user (yet another CL config file hunt and edit, blech), while in Xfce, installed a few things from the terminal to kick the tires, some never showed in the menu, a few didn't work, missing this, missing that, etc. It feels like layering GUI Linux on a CL server OS..oh..wait, lol. By the looks of things, I may just use Wheezy until the support runs out and have Salix or Stella (edit: most likely Salix, although Stella is solid and dependable, Salix is more modern and has way more multimedia options) as a backup if nothing better comes along in the meantime. I can install and config Wheezy blindfolded with heavy mittens on, too bad the Deb-hats have taken over the asylum (and bent over for the Poett-hats). :roll: :( This by no means a dig at the *BSDs, I just don't have the time or the patience, I'm addicted to Raid, have been for 7 years now, ever since the 90's, watching the HDD light flicker while it chugged along taking forever to read or load something, aka, the HDD bottleneck, been on a mission to eliminate it, not going back to a single SSD/HDD now (hence the need for something that runs on my Raids). PC-BSD is to BSD what Mint is to Linux (forget Ewbuntu) but it doesn't even like my old Raid, nevermind the new one, not even gunna try it. Worst case scenario, splitting up the 2 SSDs and running something virusd free with good multimedia support (I gotta have a DVD transcoder, ISO maker GUI like DeVeDe for example, some distros only have Handbrake, which is useless to me). I made a joke a while ago, "poop or get off the Poettering", Ima gettin off the Poettering, lol.

Edit: Corrected a spelling error.
Last edited by Linadian on 2014-11-08 17:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-08 09:32

I would simply pick one of the choices and get the head in it, no matter how long it takes, how uncomfortable it is.
To me it looks as if all solutions are less comfortable than Debian.
Distros *based* on Slackware (i always forget their names) might be the exception, so ... perhaps ?

I would never have assumed i would leave Debian. Now i just stick to Gentoo (but would just as well stick to Slackware or FreeBSD).
But then: I've never been a big fan of distrohoping, having to fiddle and struggle with most basic things, instead of doing something more interesting. Say watch youtube.
Also: I get along better with Gentoo folks, never was too happy with Slackware and BSD folks. Too "dry", for my taste. On a side note.


Short: imho all the BSD's are rock solid and good, are worth the "trouble".

I sure would have prefered i wouldn't have had to give up on Debian.
Every other day i get sad feelings due to it.
Give me convenience or give me death.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fleabus » 2014-11-08 13:54

fruitofloom wrote:I would simply pick one of the choices and get the head in it, no matter how long it takes, how uncomfortable it is.
That's what I did when I decided on Debian. Once I decided on a base distribution, the derivatives were just that much easier.

fruitofloom wrote:I sure would have prefered i wouldn't have had to give up on Debian.
Every other day i get sad feelings due to it.
I do too. Haven't totally given up, just making sure I have a fallback plan. There is nothing like Debian. It was my first choice when I started.
Last edited by fleabus on 2014-11-25 03:00, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-08 17:15

fruitofloom wrote:Short: imho all the BSD's are rock solid and good, are worth the "trouble"...I sure would have prefered i wouldn't have had to give up on Debian. Every other day i get sad feelings due to it.

I'll probably wind up splitting my SSDs and using Salix (really liking the Xfce and Sourcery) or PC-BSD (unfortunately their default DE is KDE, their Xfce version has bugs :( ), that seems like the most viable option, dependable and not too much trouble, hassle, whatever. I'd rather be doing other stuff too, as opposed to spending countless hours in the CL editing countless config files. Anything Debian based now will be tainted, some people have marketed Debian off-spins as office-ware, virusd will be an admin headache for sure.

As for the sad feelings, yep, we should start an ex-Debhat support group, lol. Myself, I can't stop making up names, got some new ones, 'Microhat', 'Redsoft', but I think Debhat has to be my all time favourite, covers a lot of bases, Debian + Redhat = asshats, lol. I keep checking my watch to see how long it'll take to get kicked off this forum. :wink: :lol: :twisted:
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby fruitofloom » 2014-11-08 17:19

ain't easy to get kicked here.
trying really hard it might happen posts of you will get edited or vanish in no-mans-land, but banning? Rather seldom ...

I will probably look into Salix too. I will skip the BSD ones until there are no other options left (not really a reason for that. arbitrary decision).
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-08 18:25

I forgot to mention, I installed Xfce in Stella during one of my kick the tires trials, it worked pretty good, so if you're not a huge fan of old Gnome 2.x, that's another option. :mrgreen:

Just select Xfce in the Stella login screen dropdown list, you have to click on your user first to see the DE list in the login sceen bottom panel (after Xfce installed of course), it remains selected for each boot until you change it (and don't forget to enable auto save sessions in Xfce's settings :mrgreen: ).

Gnome 2.x and Xfce play well together.

Stella is an excellent choice for an everyday production machine with fakeraid, office, internet, etc, but if you're heavy in to multimedia, not so much (maybe DeVeDe, Bombono or DVDStyler is available for it somewhere, not sure, haven't researched it). Edit: Found this CentOS forum page about installing DeVeDe in CentOS 6 (Stella).

Edit: Added information.
Last edited by Linadian on 2014-11-09 06:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby golinux » 2014-11-08 18:42

Linadian wrote:. . . (maybe DeVeDe, Bombono or DVDStyler is available for it somewhere, not sure, haven't researched it).

I also use DVDStyler. Steve Pusser has a build for Wheezy in the Mepis repos. It's all in this thread. Don't know how that might transfer to Stella . . .
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby Linadian » 2014-11-09 06:21

golinux wrote:
Linadian wrote:. . . (maybe DeVeDe, Bombono or DVDStyler is available for it somewhere, not sure, haven't researched it).

I also use DVDStyler. Steve Pusser has a build for Wheezy in the Mepis repos. It's all in this thread. Don't know how that might transfer to Stella . . .

Thanks for this, didn't think it existed (I hunted the net a while back), been using DeVeDe as my first choice and Bombono as a second option if DeVeDe borks the transcode, Bombono's GUI is a bit weird but it's actually pretty good once you learn how to use it. I think my DeVeDe is a little messed up because I have dmo enabled and backports only for newer dependencies and the latest kernel.

I once installed DVDStyler by enabling testing, then after it was installed, disabled testing, it worked but made a bit of a mess, a few dependency conflicts (held packages, etc, the usual :roll: ) arose later on.

My apologies to fruitofloom for veering off topic briefly. :oops:
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Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby mmix » 2014-11-09 12:25

Android-x86
http://www.android-x86.org/
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distri ... androidx86

i am pretty sure systemd has not invade android system yet.
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