Because Gnome SUCKS! That's why!

[anastasis]

All this crap really got started about 4 years ago, now.

Everybody said, 'Oh, 'don't worry', you still have 'choices' of other DEs.'

This soft-creep of Gnome has done this.

This blasted thing has gotten out of hand completely. It was intolerable 3 years ago. Now it is beyond intolerable. GNOME JUST CAN'T GET IT THROUGH THEIR THICK SKULLS!

This is what happens, people! It happened with Microsoft, it IS HAPPENING TO YOU.

There is a corner, a really, really serious corner on the market right now.

Gnome, and its load of garbage was spewed all over the Gnu/Linux community.

That community REVOLTED in droves. They went to Mint. They bounced around to Fedora. They may have even found a temporary home in Debian (heck, even NASA liked it).

But now it really is over. And I want to remind you that 'everybody' over at the Ubuntu camp said that people like ME were over reacting.

Really? Were we really over reacting 4 years ago? Were we over reacting when we saw what was happening?

Ok.

Well, heh, you don't have to worry about us anymore. You're stuck with systemd across the board.

And you will, oh, you WILL use Gnome by default if they have to ram it into your system by a catheter.

But don't pay any mind to me. I'm one of the lunatics who thought MATE was a last ditch effort and supported it. You know...at the same time when the vast majority were saying, 'Don't troll. If you don't like it, don't use it.'

Ok, I won't.

I'm almost done with GNU/Linux.

Decentralization was really the selling point. If it really is going to become another monolith (and, by gum, it will), I'd rather have a Mac to be quite honest with you. If we're going to have a monolith, let's at least have a real one.

[golinux]

Keep the rants coming. I'm really enjoying them!

[anastasis]

'If you like your sys init, you can keep your sys init.' -- President Barack Hussein Obama

[Head_on_a_Stick]

I love GNOME!

It's beautiful and anyway: are you aware that other desktops are available?

From the sound of your post, dvtm would be right up your street...

[edbarx]

At first, users who complained giving reason as to why they were disappointed and angered, were called paranoids, but now, their paranoia is proving to be something more than a delusion... As the other posters argued, taking choice away from GNU/Linux, will also take away the appeal to use it for a lot of users.

GNU/Linux was more than simply an OS that comes free of charge: it was a path to software freedom. Pushing down our throats GNOME + systemd, will only result in severe rejection. If GNU/Linux does not allow me to configure my computers and use software the way I deem best for me, I will return back to using what I used before I started to use GNU/Linux. However, I will fight my last battle.

[anastasis]

Just try to remove systemd from an Ubuntu system right now and see what happens. You'll be stuck with tty1 terminal if you can even get away with that.

If THAT doesn't say Windows 95, nothing does.

Any time you're trying to remove a basic sys init and the entire desktop environment along with half the blasted FUNCTIONS gets nuked, you have a big, big problem. It even wipes out the CLOCK! The CLOCK for crying out loud!

Systemd isn't just another kernel, it's another corn-on-the-cob.

Besides, you could right click and add icons to the Windows 3.1 screen. You can't even do THAT in the imbecilic GNOME!

Since when does any of this smack of anything but CommonCore levels of systematic, socially engineered dumb-down?

I thought GNU/Linux users were supposed to be smart?

This is downright RETARDED!

And don't tell me that it's just 'a new way of task management'. Using two tin cans tied together with string between office buildings for a new form of telecommunications would be 'change' too, but it doesn't mean it isn't retarded!

Walking off a cliff is 'progress', but it isn't the kind of progress anybody but a nutbar wants.



I get it now. Fascist space aliens bent on world domination have abducted Debian and the rest of the gang.

I'm telling you right now that systemd is the kind of environment GNOME 3.x + will thrive in. And if you try to get rid of the corn-on-the-cob, your kernel will be useless. The Linux kernel to systemd is more like a cute little chia-pet that is smiled upon than a kernel. Systemd looks at Linux and says, 'Oh, isn't that just precious. Now let's get on to the real business of the day, like draconian, despotic rule over the world.'

P.S. I do not in any way, shape, or form trust Herr Doktor P卐 or his agenda. I want my desktop not within 10000 miles of his init.

If it looks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and talks like a Nazi, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and go ahead and call it a Nazi.

[keithpeter]

Debian Jessie: just install sysvinit-core and systemd-shim. The (in)famous dependency order has been reversed so you won't need to pin systemd to -1 any more. Do a base install and then install mate-desktop-environment, rather nice as it happens.

Report bugs if any functionality problems with the shim.

Watch the blood pressure

PS: there is still gNewSense, squeeze based, still being supported.

[anastasis]

Debian Jessie: just install sysvinit-core and systemd-shim. The (in)famous dependency order has been reversed so you won't need to pin systemd to -1 any more. Do a base install and then install mate-desktop-environment, rather nice as it happens.

Report bugs if any functionality problems with the shim.

Watch the blood pressure

PS: there is still gNewSense, squeeze based, still being supported.

Oh, ok. Well, that was easy. And I am planning on migrating to gNewSense. Besides, I want to try out dmd. I actually like what GNU is doing with Debian better than Debian development right now.

But all of this calm isn't dramatic enough.

They've given the user the shaft. And I'm not forgetting.

For the time being, I'll put myself under the direction of the FSF and their sponsorship of gNewSense. They aren't going the Gnome 3.x/systemd direction at all.

Call it Hegelian dialectics or whatever you will, but I'm not sure there is going to be a synthesis on this. I didn't come to Debian to be ruled by a dictator. And that's really what's happening. And it bothers me more than I thought it would...on several different levels.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Besides, you could right click and add icons to the Windows 3.1 screen. You can't even do THAT in the imbecilic GNOME!

Yes you can!

Go to GNOME-tweak-tool and select "Desktop" and select the "Icons on Desktop" option -- simples!

[edbarx]

If you don't mind of satire and want to have a good laugh, see this link:
http://media.slated.org/albums/userpics ... -linux.png

[exploder]

I have gone through distros and desktop environments like they are going out of style lately... For me Gnome Shell is the only one that doesn't suck! I am tired of 90s looking desktop environments but still want functionality. Gnome Shell with it's extensions gives me exactly what I want. I add the Simple Dock and Recent Items extensions and I am all set.

Debian Jesse has been the best Gnome Shell experience I have found! No bug ridden mess here like I found in other distros, it's not even a final release and it works better than anything else I have ran. I have tried so many different distros and DE's that I am surprised my hard drive has not failed! Through it all Debian has remained installed and has given me the least amount of problems.

I thought for a while that Cinnamon was looking good but the longer I ran it the more bugs I found... Unity was the same way, constant problems with simple things like clearing recent history and the icon cache was always a problem. KDE looked old and Windows like, Xfce looked really old and had all kinds of odd problems. Some people love these DE's and probably have more patience than I do.

Gnome Shell just works for me, it does everything I want it too and I can even set it to take care of itself for the most part. No stupid lenses with messed up icons, no commands to clear the history, no strange permissions problems, no strange crashes, it just works and keeps on working! Do I feel that Gnome is somehow dumbed down? No, not at all because I still have control over how it works.

I do use the Simple Dock and Recent Items extensions, they make Gnome the way I want it. Gnome Shell is so customizable with extensions, you can have the desktop anyway you want and I really like that. It's funny because Debian Jesse is not considered ready for daily use and yet I use it more than any other distro I have installed and it is the most trouble free! Do I think Gnome sucks? No!

[anastasis]

I have gone through distros and desktop environments like they are going out of style lately... For me Gnome Shell is the only one that doesn't suck! I am tired of 90s looking desktop environments but still want functionality. Gnome Shell with it's extensions gives me exactly what I want. I add the Simple Dock and Recent Items extensions and I am all set.

Debian Jesse has been the best Gnome Shell experience I have found! No bug ridden mess here like I found in other distros, it's not even a final release and it works better than anything else I have ran. I have tried so many different distros and DE's that I am surprised my hard drive has not failed! Through it all Debian has remained installed and has given me the least amount of problems.

I thought for a while that Cinnamon was looking good but the longer I ran it the more bugs I found... Unity was the same way, constant problems with simple things like clearing recent history and the icon cache was always a problem. KDE looked old and Windows like, Xfce looked really old and had all kinds of odd problems. Some people love these DE's and probably have more patience than I do.

Gnome Shell just works for me, it does everything I want it too and I can even set it to take care of itself for the most part. No stupid lenses with messed up icons, no commands to clear the history, no strange permissions problems, no strange crashes, it just works and keeps on working! Do I feel that Gnome is somehow dumbed down? No, not at all because I still have control over how it works.

I do use the Simple Dock and Recent Items extensions, they make Gnome the way I want it. Gnome Shell is so customizable with extensions, you can have the desktop anyway you want and I really like that. It's funny because Debian Jesse is not considered ready for daily use and yet I use it more than any other distro I have installed and it is the most trouble free! Do I think Gnome sucks? No!

I am glad to you are enjoying your GNOME 3.x experience, exploder. I have nothing against that. If you want to go through three to five extra steps to open and navigate the guis for applications, you go have yourself a ball. I'm all for it.

I'm glad Gnome Shell 'just works' for you, because in my experience, it just 'hasn't worked' for me. It's been buggy and remains buggy.

It's like a Nazi gamer wrote it just to punish people for no apparent reason. And the team now is all too happy to oblige the every demand of systemd. It's like they are part of the same meta-brain.

That's wonderful. They can go have their fun and addon themselves to ecstasy.

However, when things start looking like The Empire Strikes Back and they are attempting to 'cut out' all other would-be de's, and are exacting Revenge for the fallout with Unity, Mate, Cinnamon, etc...then there is something deeper and more insidious at work here.

I'm saying that these people have the mindset of MS upper management.

But that just isn't what GNU/Linux is. It's just not that kind of animal. It didn't grow or develop that way. The refreshing thing about Debian was that it really was a Toy Story with all kinds of things for developers, educators, scientists and researchers alike to play with. Debian and GNU/Linux are about exploring the 'other'. And this isn't the other. This is Microsoft.

GNOME didn't used to be this way. It actually won the open market by consent and having a superior product that actually was stable, well designed, and highly extensible.

Mark my words: the relationship between GNOME and systemd will only grow more symbiotic with time.

With this direction in development, GNU/Linux will be unrecognizable in 5 years. It won't have a choice about it. The Central Government will be making the People's Decisions for them. The Central Government knows best how to redistribute for the People's needs. The Central Government has spoken.

These people have such hubris that they BELIEVE that GNU/Linux is going to be Chrome/Android, Windows, and OSX. They're delusional. They're dreaming. It never will, and never should be. GNU/Linux is the OTHER. It is about being and doing everything that those other guys aren't and don't. The biggest problem is abject GREED, truth be told. Again, here they manifest their psychosis. Amazon? REALLY, Ubuntu? Seriously? After you downloaded the Debian archive, slapped a U on it and then marketed it as your own? Don't you have something better to do like design Windows 9.1.1? YOU'RE CRAZY! But we want our DEs to be shiny and clicky-clacky. That's wonderful. I'm into shiny. Shiny is good. Bells and whistles were wonderful on Windows 98 too. Ubuntu used to sound like Africa. Now it sounds like Show-me-the-money. That's Progres$.

GNU/Linux was a lot of fun and spawned a huge development cycle when it was still young, dumb and non-self-aware. Debian used to be about PLAYING WITH TOYS, people! It was FUN! People were FREE to have fun. And that fun sparked all kinds of creativity.

NOW YOU'VE GOT THE DAMNED GESTAPO SQUAD, and it ain't fun!

These people SHOULD be working for Microsoft because they are pathological NAZIS! The very same mentality that drove socialist Fascism drives THEM! It doesn't matter if it's in software development or government, they do and act the same in all facets of life because THEY ARE NAZIS at their core! And so if your OS starts governing itself like a Fascist regime, don't say you weren't warned.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

I suppose I should post this in the interests of balance...

Just let Mrs. Head_on_a_Stick loose on Fedora 20 with GNOME 3.14 -- she hated it

"Why do you have to click on 'applications' to bring up the chrome icon?"
"I don't like the stupid square-handed finger" (mouse pointer?)
"I hate everything about it!"
"Tell them they were right!"
& full-on, hands in the air screaming fits every time she activated the hot corners.

I had to take her off & load up her usual desktop -- PekWM with lxpanel and nothing else.
So much for user-friendliness...

[exploder]

If I were to complain about anything it would not be about Gnome Shell, it would be about all of the so called forks of it. Using outdated bits and pieces of Gnome, changing them slightly and calling them something else. These forks make installing other DE's a nightmare! Nearly all of these so called forked DE's can be duplicated by installing extensions!

I love how the creators of these forks have the nerve to say issues with updates are an upstream issue too! It's no wonder some distros hide the shortcut to the system logs because if you were to take the time to look at them you would see the mess their forks have made of things! Mixing and matching various elements of Gnome is not a good idea at all.

No other desktop environment is being turned into such a mix and match mess. No one was doing this when KDE 4 came out and was not well received. Ubuntu Gnome is a good example of this, just look at how many different versions of Gnome packages it contains! I am not trying to single out Ubuntu Gnome but it was an easy example.

If Gnome is so bad in the first place why are so many trying to build off it? My 5 year old has no problem using Gnome Shell, I just turned him loose on it and he never asked me anything about it. Does it take me more mouse clicks to do anything? No, one click on the launcher icon is all it takes. I can have a traditional menu if I want so what's the problem? I can turn off the hot corner if I want, really I can change just about anything. If that isn't enough there is always the classic session. How many desktop environments give you this much choice?

I do not have to spend hours configuring things, a quick stop at gnome extensions and a few minutes later everything is how I want it. I have better things to do than spend hours configuring my operating system. I want to actually use my computer! Do I want my operating system to look like it's from the 90s? Not especially...

Development on Xfce has not been very active lately and keep in mind that it was originally a fork of Gnome! Mate is now going with some Gnome 3 packages as was mentioned on their site for their next release. The only full desktop environment that does not rely on Gnome in some way is KDE! I guess you could count Trinity but who uses it?

Gnome does not suck at all, it works reliably and can be configured any way you like. What does suck are the buggy forks that any given update might break.

[anastasis]

Well, ultimately these are moot points. It doesn't matter. Decisions, irrevocable decisions, have been made concerning the general development direction.

I could go into a long spiel about the illusion of progress and how this is a socially engineered divide and conquer tactic that creates false Fnords like the so-called 'generation gaps' and what not.

That's so 80s.

That's so 90s.

That's so 00s.

That was then. This is now.

However, if that logic were applied to Wine and Brandy, they would all go out of business.

What do you mean selling me this 18 year old barrel aged premium brandy? I want the stuff that comes in a plastic bottle at the drug store that was made last season.

What I'm saying is that people who come to GNU/Linux with these socially programmed matrices of cultural expectations based upon normalcy bias DO NOT BELONG in GNU/Linux.

This is the locust/consumerist mindset that already has well established monoliths.

In fact, I will go so far as to say that I don't even mind a monolith in GNU/Linux; as long as that monolith does not force all else to be assimilated into itself.

And that's what's happening.

I don't know why some humans believe they are gods and have the pride of Lucifer himself in the belief that it is their destiny to be overlords of the world. Information Tech is no exception.

Most people think of them as dorks. And actually, these kinds of computer hacks (not hackers), ARE DORKS.

We're all the RedHat Society now.

Um...yeah, so I'm not going to be around here much longer, methinks. I think I've had about enough of this drink for the last 4 or so years.

I'm not having fun anymore. If this is what the OS is becoming, I'll just go get a Mac, take a blue pill and have a shot of 2 dollar whisky.

I really fear for the GNU/Linux community.

The only thing I want to leave to the GNU/Linux community is this one thought: It didn't and doesn't have to be this way. You can travel back in time if you want. You can travel to the future if you want. You DO NOT have to accept this paradigm. You are FREE!

So here's to a Monolith--the Individual.

2001 A Space Odyssey - ending

[twoflowers]

I guess you could count Trinity but who uses it?

I do, and many others. And on contrary to KDE4 it get's its job done. I miss it on FreeBSD, but eventually it'll work there, too. But hey, there's FVWM, so what's the problem?

[Linadian]

This thread is hilarious, some good rants and love the Poettering Me Edition meme edbarx.

I ranted about Gnome 3.x in the DW comments, specifically how it takes way more mouse cursor travel and clicks to accomplish the same tasks as in a 'normal' desktop paradigm DE, basically I labelled it a Carpal Tunnel Syndrome inducing POS. Of course the fanboi sheeples jumped all over me, but that's OK, I'll be the one laughing when the feds knock on their doors because virusd and Carp-nome become NSA spyware infested.

The Linux community will definitely divide over this, there will be the Winux camp and a GNUnux camp. I'll never leave the GNUnux camp, I'd set my PC on fire first.

As for shitstemd shim, why should I have to have any kind of file like that on my computer in the first place, my system shouldn't need 'shims' as a workaround for anything, this is way out of control. Debhat is out of control too, aka Redbuntian.

[twoflowers]

That mousetravelsymtom has KDE4. too. But that's been solved by TDE

[drokmed]

'If you like your sys init, you can keep your sys init.' -- President Barack Hussein Obama

[BowCatShot]

"If it looks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and talks like a Nazi, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and go ahead and call it a Nazi."

Could be a commie.