Mr. Woodford's opinion about the future of Debian

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michael7 · #1 Post by **michael7** » 2007-02-12 02:27

Woodford's comments suggest that Ubuntu is eclipsing Debian. "I think Mark has done a masterful job of nudging the community into a more pragmatic point of view. More and more the Debian community is becoming the Ubuntu community. New people coming in are allowed to have diverse opinions about open source software. The hardcore purists are sticking with Debian, but five years from now, they may be about as plentiful as 1970s MIT hackers."

http://distrocenter.linux.com/distrocen ... 116&tid=23

DeanLinkous · #2 Post by **DeanLinkous** » 2007-02-12 02:38

Yea Yea we should all be more "pragmatic".... We should not provide source code because it is too much trouble

If anything i think the rampant "pragmatic" and "realist" attitudes shows we need to protect against total pragamatism and realism....and hold to at least a little to some ideals and idealism

As KB Clark said "pragmatic men of power have had no time or inclination to deal with…social morality"

Pobega · #3 Post by **Pobega** » 2007-02-12 03:44

michael7 wrote:
Woodford's comments suggest that Ubuntu is eclipsing Debian. "I think Mark has done a masterful job of nudging the community into a more pragmatic point of view. More and more the Debian community is becoming the Ubuntu community. New people coming in are allowed to have diverse opinions about open source software. The hardcore purists are sticking with Debian, but five years from now, they may be about as plentiful as 1970s MIT hackers."
http://distrocenter.linux.com/distrocen ... 116&tid=23

This doesn't make any sense to me. Is he saying that in five years there will be no purists left? Richard Stallman would probably flip if he read this, which I'm hoping he doesn't.

If anyone concerned about computer programming ever watched on of Stallman's speeches about patents and non-free programs (You can look up Richard M Stallman on Youtube or video.google.com) you would probably become a purist too. I don't see how Debian is becoming like Ubuntu, at all. Ubuntu's forums are huge, while Debian's is small (But tightly knit). Debian's mailing lists are pretty active, but not active enough to compare to Ubuntu's forums.

Debian isn't including non-free software, nor is it building a GUI over every single task. Debian seems to be worried more about the quality of the project rather than the frequency of release.

If anything, Debian and Ubuntu are brothers. Ubuntu is the more popular, often changing brother. Debian is the quiet, law abiding brother. At least that's how I see it.

Sure, Ubuntu has popularity. But does Debian really need popularity to thrive? It has a community of active users and active developers, both banding together to help one another out. Ubuntu is maintained by a (As far as I know) paid staff, with little to no community involvement.

Sorry about the Ubuntu/Debian rant, I've got nothing against Ubuntu. I just personally prefer Debian. A lot.

Lux · #4 Post by **Lux** » 2007-02-12 04:45

"You can't discuss the ocean with a well frog - he's limited by the space he lives in. You can't discuss ice with a summer insect - he's bound to a single season. You can't discuss the Way with a cramped scholar - he's shackled by his doctrines."
http://www.terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu1.html#17

And you can't discuss Debian with Warren Woodford -- his motivation for developing Mepis comes from seeking financial profit.

ghostdawg · #5 Post by **ghostdawg** » 2007-02-12 05:21

Well I remember over 5 years ago a distro named Red Hat was the top dog during those years. If any other distro, at least in the USA, could be found in stores it was Red Hat.

Of course now, by some stats, Ubuntu is the current leader, meaning Open Source will always bring about changes from one top distro to another top distro!

Long Live Open Source...

bluesdog · #6 Post by **bluesdog** » 2007-02-12 05:55

Gotta love those 'Nostradummies'.

Like this one:
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
* Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment
Corp.,1977

ghostdawg · #7 Post by **ghostdawg** » 2007-02-12 08:34

bluesdog wrote:

Gotta love those 'Nostradummies'.

Like this one:
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
* Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment
Corp.,1977

I like this one also:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers,"
Thomas J. Watson, president of IBM - 1943

DeanLinkous · #8 Post by **DeanLinkous** » 2007-02-12 13:27

"The GPL license and the Free Software Foundation make sense to me if I assume that the purpose of the GPL license is to force the redistribution of all source code and to prevent commerce that does not include the unencumbered redistribution of all source code. The FSF recommends that you assign your copyrights to them, so they can insure your software 'freedom.' If the FSF succeeds, all source code will be GPL licensed and controlled by the Free Software Foundation; and all Laws regarding software patents and copyrights will be rendered ineffective."

Warren Woodford - MEPIS

Lavene · #9 Post by **Lavene** » 2007-02-12 13:53

I for one is witching to Ubuntu right this moment...
Mark!!! Give me blobs... I need them... crave them...

Argh... tell mom... I love her...

michael7 · #10 Post by **michael7** » 2007-02-12 23:12

Woodford has gone from being something of an innovator to a complete jerk. I have the urge to tell him to piss up a rope. On second thought, however, I believe Lavene has the better idea.

Let's see who is still around in 5 years.

craigevil · #11 Post by **craigevil** » 2007-02-12 23:38

I close my eyes, only for a *buntu, and the *buntu's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind.
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea of distros
All they do, crumbles to the ground, though they refuse to see

Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind

[Now] Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but debian and slackware
The rest slip away, and all your money won't another update buy.

Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind, every *buntu is dust in the wind.

michael7 · #12 Post by **michael7** » 2007-02-13 02:23

Well, Ash Wednesday is February 21. Being a good Catholic boy, I'll be in church. What about you, Reverend?

jml · #13 Post by **jml** » 2007-02-13 21:21

I have to add my two cents here as well. Choice is a wonderful thing. IMHO Debian is going to be around for the long haul. Its a distro that is not beholding to any corporation. Its developed by a huge number of very dedicated and talented people and that is its true strength. And, I also agree that a philosophy of ship when its ready is a good one. If you want bleeding edge, use SID, or Sidux. Those are good at what they do too.

One other point, you will notice that none of the derivative distros, Ubuntu, Mepis, Linspire etc are predicting Debian's demise. If they really believed that, they would be quaking in their corporate boots. If Debian went away, where would all of these other distros get their code? Recreating an infrastructure as large as Debian's would be quite an undertaking and I don't think very feasible.

Joe

dmn_clown · #14 Post by **dmn_clown** » 2007-02-14 01:30

Curse these "journalists" for not asking the important questions! I want to know if Linspire is going to change its name to Ubuntows...

Lavene · #15 Post by **Lavene** » 2007-02-14 05:27

Those making the derived distros are well aware of their dependency to Debian. Even Ubuntu states that "Ubuntu is a free, open source Linux-based operating system that starts with the breadth of Debian". They owe their mere existence to Debian and they know it.

It's the stupid 'journalists' that keep predicting Debian's demise because of derived distros popularity. This is of course quite absurd. It's like if someone bought ten Fords from the factory, repainted them, maybe changed the seats and added a few cool instruments. Then said: "Hey.. I make better cars than Ford!! They might as well pack it in!"

There are always room for improvement, but the definition of improvement is subjective. Ubuntu takes Debian and do what they feel is improving the distro. In others eyes it's still not good enough so they make a distro derived from Ubuntu. None of them will kill each other off of course.

To me though, none of the derived distros provide what I would call improvements so I'll stick with "the original and best" (in my subjective view of course).

Tina

jml · #16 Post by **jml** » 2007-02-16 04:13

Tina, I agree with you whole heartedly. And when I can get my "punkin head" around the task of getting encrypted wireless working in Etch I'll be able to run Debian exclusively as well. Until then, I will continue to use derivative distros for some of my hardware.

Joe

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Mr. Woodford's opinion about the future of Debian

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