Buying a computer without windows on it

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Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-07-01 23:21

In another topic, (in hardware) the question came up "Buying a computer with out windows on it , where ?
Well it was suggested do a search, and I did, among other things , it turned up this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows and it does appear
finding new computers that do not have windows pre-installed, is not as easy as it sounds.
I guess when a OS is that bad, this is the last resort, to trying to force people to use it.
It is easy enough to install Debian or any linux system and if one uses the entire HD, get rid of the MS malware, but from what I see in the above article, you still have to pay $$$ for the malware, even if you do not plan to use it ! :D
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-07-01 23:50

@Dasein,
Wow, that is a nice one, lots of stuff there, thanks !
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby v&n » 2015-07-02 04:01

Your post makes me think it is probably different stories for different countries.

Where I live, finding a linux or freedos or no-OS counterpart for almost every cheap to mid-range laptop/netbook model is fairly easy. The retailers usually have these model names on the tip of their tongues which they spit out as soon as you talk about "same/similar but cheaper" model. In case of Dell, we even get the advantage of avoiding their excuse of "tampering with the OS voids the warranty" on no-windows models (I always recommend to avoid Dell anyway, due to their shockingly hostile/dodgy after-sale support, multiple case experience).
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby pylkko » 2015-07-02 04:29

Where I live, if you really dig and search you can find laptops without OS's but they are usually not cheaper but more expensive than similar ones with windows. This is due to many things, I believe. Firstly, MS bundles the preinstalled windows laptops with lots of bloatware and trial versions of programs for which the software manufacturers pay, and this money goes towards making windows itself on the computers free and sometimes even lowering the prices of the laptops entirely. Second, large electronics retailers sell the laptops in large volumes and organize sales and other campaignes where you can get discounts of products that they want to get rid of quickly for whatever reason.
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby edbarx » 2015-07-02 05:19

I remember, in the past, this was also my intention, but I found that requesting a laptop without Windows, would be costlier than buying one with MS Windows preinstalled. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to spend more money to avoid paying for something you don't want, as in the end, you will still be paying more. I was suggested a site selling laptops without Windows, but the prices were exorbitant! Among them there was one above the $4000 price mark! :twisted:

I am not ready to pay more, just to use GNU/Linux.
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby v&n » 2015-07-02 05:37

pylkko wrote:Where I live, if you really dig and search you can find laptops without OS's but they are usually not cheaper but more expensive than similar ones with windows. This is due to many things, I believe. Firstly, MS bundles the preinstalled windows laptops with lots of bloatware and trial versions of programs for which the software manufacturers pay, and this money goes towards making windows itself on the computers free and sometimes even lowering the prices of the laptops entirely.....

edbarx wrote:I found that requesting a laptop without Windows, would be costlier than buying one with MS Windows preinstalled.

Interesting! In this case, what can be better than letting those you hate pay for your hardware (even if partly).. :P

For such countries : Go Windowz FTW!! (inside the showroom, at home you can safely switch to "Get out Windowz!" 8) )
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby edbarx » 2015-07-02 05:50

Hate?! :?

I don't think strong emotions like hate are appropriate where the choice of an OS is involved. I chose GNU/Linux, definitely not out of hate, but out of necessity for more flexibility and choice.

In my previous post, my point is: it is illogical to avoid paying for something to be opted out, if in the end, the price you pay is still higher.
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-07-02 06:19

As I mentioned in the other thread, I saved £79 on the cost of my laptop by ordering it without Windows.
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/

To my chagrin, it came with a trial version of Windows 7 pre-installed (they had to use that to test the hardware before shipping it) but at least I had the satisfaction of wiping it :)

Also: https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby Job » 2015-07-02 16:42

I bought from these guys. There is an option to ship without the OS.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/company/err ... fault.aspx
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby mdavies5 » 2015-07-03 01:41

I have read that in France (and possibly the whole Euro area) retailers must give a rebate if you do not want to use Windows. I'm not sure if they remove it or simply disable it somehow. Unfortunately I live in Australia where we can get machines with Linux installed alongside Windows but they are no cheaper.
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby edbarx » 2015-07-03 06:34

mdavies5 wrote:I have read that in France (and possibly the whole Euro area) retailers must give a rebate if you do not want to use Windows. I'm not sure if they remove it or simply disable it somehow. Unfortunately I live in Australia where we can get machines with Linux installed alongside Windows but they are no cheaper.

My country, Malta, is a full member of the EU, and we still don't have that luxury, as it is at the discretion of the seller to decide, whether to charge for Windows or not. Furthermore, when I insisted not to have Windows, I was presented with inferior hardware, as the best hardware was reserved for computers complete with Windows.
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-07-03 07:15

Technically OEM Windows installations require the user to agree with the EULA terms so the license fee should be refundable in any country as it is a contract with Microsoft.

https://wiki.fsfe.org/WindowsTaxRefund
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

Postby dasein » 2015-07-03 14:00

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Technically OEM Windows installations require the user to agree with the EULA terms so the license fee should be refundable in any country as it is a contract with Microsoft.

One that is applicable only to a purchase of the standalone OS. Otherwise, the exact same EULA clearly leaves it to OEMs to decide how they want to handle questions of refund/exchange (subject to applicable statutes/regulations, of course).

The language specifically leaves the OEM free to insist that the user return the unit for a refund of the full purchase price. (And requiring exactly that is arguably a sound business decision.)

(It's also worth remembering that nothing requires the OEM it make it easy to recover the Windows licensing fee. Oftentimes, the vendor's unwritten "policy" is to make recovery cost-prohibitive in terms of users' time.)

Edit: IANAL, but I would guess that users' recovery might be limited (at least in some jurisdictions), to the price the OEM paid MSFT, which is nowhere near the retail cost of an OEM license.
Last edited by dasein on 2015-07-03 14:28, edited 2 times in total.
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