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Buying a computer without windows on it

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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dasein
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#16 Post by dasein »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:^ Did you read my link?
Did you read the EULA? (The pertinent language is even quoted verbatim on the page you linked to.)

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#17 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

I presume you mean this bit:
contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed.
As the guide explains, the returns policy of the vendor will be based upon the premise that the hardware is not usable with Windows -- any GNU/Linux user can repudiate this and demand that only the *software* be removed.

I'm not saying it would be easy (or even certain) but it is at least *possible* as several examples have proved.

For example, in Italy the High Court has ruled on this very issue:
Some Italian lawyer wrote:the judge essentially decided that it's illegal to force customers to buy something they don't want without giving them the chance to express their consent or disagreement to the terms of use of the thing itself before the purchase.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-window ... -in-italy/
deadbang

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dasein
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#18 Post by dasein »

You are massively missing the point.

1) Until/unless the user accepts the EULA, no contract of any kind exists between MSFT and the end user.

2) The user cannot "force" an OEM to sell a machine without Windows. The OEM is perfectly entitled to simply require the return of the unit.

3) The fact that some vendors may choose voluntarily to "go the extra mile" to please customers has zero to do with your original claim of a nonexistent contractual right.

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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#19 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

dasein wrote:Until/unless the user accepts the EULA, no contract of any kind exists between MSFT and the end user.
That *is* my point -- if the EULA is not accepted then no contract is "signed" and the monies charged for said contractual services and products should be returned.
dasein wrote:The user cannot "force" an OEM to sell a machine without Windows.
I would argue that the vendor cannot "force" a customer to purchase unnecessary and unwanted software for their laptop.

This was the position put forward in the Italian case and the High Court agreed.

Hopefully, other countries will follow suit...
deadbang

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dasein
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#20 Post by dasein »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
dasein wrote:Until/unless the user accepts the EULA, no contract of any kind exists between MSFT and the end user.
That *is* my point -- if the EULA is not accepted then no contract is "signed" and the monies charged for said contractual services and products should be returned.
Oh for the love of J. "Bob" Dobbs...

One cannot "enforce" provisions of a nonexistent contract. The only contract that exists is between the OEM and the purchaser, and said contract does not include a specific requirement to refund the Windows licensing fee.

Really.

And no one "forced" the user to buy the computer in question. The huge Windows logo on the box probably constitutes adequate notice that the machine inside has, well, Windows on it. In fact, if the machine inside that box didn't have Windows on it, the consumer could legitimately claim fraud.

On that cheery note, I leave this thread to the attentions of others.

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pylkko
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Re: Buying a computer without windows on it

#21 Post by pylkko »

v&n wrote:
pylkko wrote:Where I live, if you really dig and search you can find laptops without OS's but they are usually not cheaper but more expensive than similar ones with windows. This is due to many things, I believe. Firstly, MS bundles the preinstalled windows laptops with lots of bloatware and trial versions of programs for which the software manufacturers pay, and this money goes towards making windows itself on the computers free and sometimes even lowering the prices of the laptops entirely.....
edbarx wrote:I found that requesting a laptop without Windows, would be costlier than buying one with MS Windows preinstalled.
Interesting! In this case, what can be better than letting those you hate pay for your hardware (even if partly).. :P

For such countries : Go Windowz FTW!! (inside the showroom, at home you can safely switch to "Get out Windowz!" 8) )
Some people arguably want to purchase a devices without an OS precisely in order to avoid financially supporting the comapany behind the development of that said OS. However, this is complicated as I have understood that some of the vendors that selll devices with linux preinstalled simply remove the Windows which shipped with the laptop. And in such a case the customer is clearly still particpating in what they so wish to avoid.

Around here, this phenomenon is particularly strong when looking at laptops that are aimed at the "family use home market". And if you are looking at a high-end business or development devices you are not going to see it so clearly. You need to remember that large companies selling in high volumes can, temporarily, sell the products even at a loss if they gain something else from that (e.g are able to free storabe space (which also costs), or are able to so update their line of products rapidly). Since these companies are the ones selling the mainstream windows devices... you will be able to procure devices with similar specs at lower prices than from the more specialized IT shops

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