Distributions based on Devuan...

[golinux]

Doesnt Devuan/Debian have a good *configuration* utility?
I see my beloved network-manager bit the dust.

I didn't have any problems with networking because I took steps to avoid them. Before upgrading to Devuan, I uninstalled
network-manager-gnome and installed wicd-gtk.

Phil

Remember that Debian is now basically a systemd-gnome OS so gnome apps are likely to have a problem on Devuan because of ties to systemd. wicd is the default and works quite well but then my needs are simple..

[millpond]

Doesnt Devuan/Debian have a good *configuration* utility?
I see my beloved network-manager bit the dust.

I didn't have any problems with networking because I took steps to avoid them. Before upgrading to Devuan, I uninstalled
network-manager-gnome and installed wicd-gtk.

Phil

I thought that wicd was only for wireless. Apparently not.

Before I install it, some advice would be much appreciated.

I see its a daemon - what exactly should I disable/remove first?

Does this have the ability to sense hotplugging to *different* networks in *wired* mode?
Often, when downloading I plug directly into my cable modem, and off the network modem - which changes local routing table. Win handles this flawlessly.
I do imagine a daemon would be needed for this.

Are there scrpts written for the CLI version?

Would Mate use the gtk version, and Xfce use the kde????

(I have multiple DE's here...)

[millpond]

@millpond . . . Congrats . . . sort of, I guess. I was wondering if you ever did the deed. If you can't get things fully sorted, consider posting to the dng ML or hop on #devuan at freenode.

Any specially good times (EST or GMT) for IRC? Last I looked it was dead... But then again it was late.
I know I can read the mailing list from the web, but can I post from there? On this machine I do not really do email, and these days sign up for things with gorillamail.

Oh. I lied when I said there were around 15000 packages loaded here. Make that close to 20,000. Even though there were a couple 'issues' - this was the speediest and most pain free dist-upgrade I have yet experienced. Plus throw in that this is an ancient 32 bit AMD system, no sse2, not even the virtualizer bit.
(I have a Win10 laptop siting literally right atop this machine, but I use it mebbe once a month).

So far, I am not really seeing any *new* problems, just some continuation of old ones such as being bedevilled by emacsen-common and unable to get rid of it.

Now, I'm assuming that Devuan Jesse is 8.3. It upgraded from standard 8.1, and I have no clue as to the changes, or bugs caused by 8.3 vs Devuan itself!

[golinux]

@millpond . . . Congrats . . . sort of, I guess. I was wondering if you ever did the deed. If you can't get things fully sorted, consider posting to the dng ML or hop on #devuan at freenode.

Any specially good times (EST or GMT) for IRC? Last I looked it was dead... But then again it was late.

IRC activity is sporadic. #devuan is logged on botbot which you can even search (it does a pretty good job). If you post, it might wake someone up.

I know I can read the mailing list from the web, but can I post from there? On this machine I do not really do email, and these days sign up for things with gorillamail.

You can post without signing up but that needs admin approval which sometimes takes weeks - not a high priority.

Even though there were a couple 'issues' - this was the speediest and most pain free dist-upgrade I have yet experienced.

YEA! Very good to hear. I didn't upgrade. I installed directly to metal and no problem ootb.

So far, I am not really seeing any *new* problems, just some continuation of old ones such as being bedevilled by emacsen-common and unable to get rid of it.

I have that installed but have no idea why. No emacs here.

Now, I'm assuming that Devuan Jesse is 8.3. It upgraded from standard 8.1, and I have no clue as to the changes, or bugs caused by 8.3 vs Devuan itself!

There shouldn't be any unless you had a franken-debian to start with.

Edit: Look what I just found!

Code: Select all

$ apt-cache rdepends emacsen-common
emacsen-common
Reverse Depends:
  zshdb
  yaml-mode
  xemacs21-support
  xemacs21-nomule
  xemacs21-mule-canna-wnn
  xemacs21-mule
  xcscope-el
  x-face-el
  wl-beta
  wl
  w3m-el-snapshot
  w3m-el
  verbiste-el
  tuareg-mode
  timidity-el
  tads2-mode
  speechd-el
  sml-mode
  slime
  silversearcher-ag-el
  semi
  select-xface
  search-citeseer
  search-ccsb
  cmuscheme48-el
  rail
  pymacs
  puppet-el
  puppet-el
  org-mode
  org-mode
  ocaml-mode
  notmuch-emacs
  namazu2
  muse-el
  mu-cite
  mpg123-el
  emacs-mozc
  mhc
  mgp
  mew-beta
  mew
  mdk
  maxima-emacs
  mu4e
  magit
  lookup-el
  liquidsoap-mode
  ledger-el
  ledger-el
  js2-mode
  emacs-intl-fonts
  inform-mode
  ilisp
  howm
  goo
  golang-mode
  golang-mode
  goby
  gnuserv
  gnuplot-mode
  ghc-mod
  gforth
  geiser
  gcl
  flim
  erlang-mode
  erc
  emms
  emacs24-common
  dictionary-el
  dictionaries-common
  dictem
  dictem
  ddskk
  cxref-emacs
  coq
  migemo-el
  cmake-data
  bitmap-mule
  auto-install-el
  auctex
  apel
  a2ps

[JLloyd13]

Remember that Debian is now basically a systemd-gnome OS so gnome apps are likely to have a problem on Devuan because of ties to systemd. wicd is the default and works quite well but then my needs are simple..

Systemd's ties to Gnome are one of my biggest problems with it as it does make things harder for non-systemd users to use Gnome, BUT, it is still certainly possible, and I think calling Debian a 'systemd-gnome OS' is a bit of a stretch seeing as all other desktops and window managers still work just as well as Gnome does on Debian.

[golinux]

Remember that Debian is now basically a systemd-gnome OS so gnome apps are likely to have a problem on Devuan because of ties to systemd. wicd is the default and works quite well but then my needs are simple..

Systemd's ties to Gnome are one of my biggest problems with it as it does make things harder for non-systemd users to use Gnome, BUT, it is still certainly possible, and I think calling Debian a 'systemd-gnome OS' is a bit of a stretch seeing as all other desktops and window managers still work just as well as Gnome does on Debian.

Other DE are allowed - for the moment. Between this and this (the first few minutes are sufficient), you should be able to connect the dots to see where this is going.

[JLloyd13]

Remember that Debian is now basically a systemd-gnome OS so gnome apps are likely to have a problem on Devuan because of ties to systemd. wicd is the default and works quite well but then my needs are simple..

Systemd's ties to Gnome are one of my biggest problems with it as it does make things harder for non-systemd users to use Gnome, BUT, it is still certainly possible, and I think calling Debian a 'systemd-gnome OS' is a bit of a stretch seeing as all other desktops and window managers still work just as well as Gnome does on Debian.

Other DE are allowed - for the moment. Between this and this (the first few minutes are sufficient), you should be able to connect the dots to see where this is going.

Allowed? You realize we are talking about an open source, community developed operating system, yes? It is literally impossible for them to prevent people from using other DEs even if they wanted to (Microsoft could not stop people from running cygwin, even back when they certainly wanted to before Ubuntu on Windows 10), a claim I find fairly ridiculous, considering it is an organization basically run entirely through volunteers and elected leaders.

Placing those kind of restrictions is really only something a corporation would have anything to gain from. If Debian's elected leaders and volunteer maintainers and developers actually tried to limit people to gnome (ignoring the fact they have no motive to do so and it's not even technically possible) what would happen is they would no longer have the volunteers and contributors they rely on. As much as I know a lot of people are very legitimately concerned about systemd this idea crosses the line into conspiracy theory level BS.

That said, while currently using Debian I do definitely support the work Devuan is doing, providing a great alternative and keeping things clean to use without of systemd. Poettering has always stuck me as a temperamental child and in particular I'm concerned about the extra work systemd and Gnomes ties to have created for the *BSD distributions. But there is no 'allow' in a community organization using open source mostly copyleft software. The software only moves in the direction the community wants it to.

[golinux]

You're right that was a poor choice of words.

As to "The software only moves in the direction the community wants it to" . . . that would depend on your definition of "community". The TC?

[stevepusser]

Doesnt Devuan/Debian have a good *configuration* utility?
I see my beloved network-manager bit the dust.

I didn't have any problems with networking because I took steps to avoid them. Before upgrading to Devuan, I uninstalled
network-manager-gnome and installed wicd-gtk.

Phil

I thought that wicd was only for wireless. Apparently not.

Before I install it, some advice would be much appreciated.

I see its a daemon - what exactly should I disable/remove first?

Does this have the ability to sense hotplugging to *different* networks in *wired* mode?
Often, when downloading I plug directly into my cable modem, and off the network modem - which changes local routing table. Win handles this flawlessly.
I do imagine a daemon would be needed for this.

Are there scrpts written for the CLI version?

Would Mate use the gtk version, and Xfce use the kde????

(I have multiple DE's here...)

You can use the gtk version in any desktop, even KDE. The KDE version just integrates a bit better with KDE, since it's using KDE python bindings. Just stick to the gtk one for any other DE, or you can see which one you like in KDE. One "gotcha" for the gtk version is that you have to manually enter the wireless interface into wicd before it'll do anything.

[JLloyd13]

You're right that was a poor choice of words.

As to "The software only moves in the direction the community wants it to" . . . that would depend on your definition of "community". The TC?

I would say community would include every single person who is actively contributing to Debian, from the project leader down to those of us who report bugs and donate money. Obviously some people in that community have way more control and influence, but the reason why all of those people matter is because any loss of contributers is negative. When decisions are made that contributers don't like, they leave and stop contributing, and since Debian depends entirely on it's contributers to fund it, report bugs, maintain applications, etc. no matter what people at the top want they can't do something that would alienate too many of the people who contribute to the distribution.

The TC is not the community, because the TC is absolutely useless if no one funds them, reports bugs, maintains applications, etc. You personally might disagree with them, but they require the implicit consent or apathy of a majority of contributers or the distribution doesn't move forward.

[arochester]

This thread has become totally wandered.

The title is "Distributions based on Devuan..." (Which was just a cut and paste job from the Devuan website.)

If any future posts on this thread are specifically about that, then OK.

If people just want to add "anything", unrelated to the original post, the thread it may as well be closed.

[golinux]

Guess another OT thread to continue the OT thread that has gone OT will be needed.

[dilberts_left_nut]

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=129362

Wish granted.