It's time to move...

[golinux]

Hey guys, why so judgmental? Danielsan is just trying to work out his process of finding something that suits him. His comments might be useful to someone else on a similar quest.

[anticapitalista]

Hey guys, why so judgmental? Danielsan is just trying to work out his process of finding something that suits him. His comments might be useful to someone else on a similar quest.

They may well be useful as long as they are accurate. As the dev of antiX I'd really like to know what is causing the problem he/she encountered.

[HuangLao]

Hey guys, why so judgmental? Danielsan is just trying to work out his process of finding something that suits him. His comments might be useful to someone else on a similar quest.

I would normally agree with you, and I have had the same view until recent posts. Danielsan has created many and participated in many anti-systemd threads (I have as well), however, he/she has also mentioned in prior threads that 1) they don't understand init, 2) are a beginner with Linux etc.... For someone, who falls into those two categories, the soapbox is used quite often. Also, to second anti's comment, show the facts....don't name drop a problem and not offer evidence of said problem. Just starting to smell a troll/FUD provocateur. I could be wrong.

FYI, I am in no means in favor of systemd, I prefer BSD init and sysv/those that expand on sysv. Which is why I run Slackware, Debian/antiX and FreeBSD, ok and openSUSE in VM.

[bw123]

I think the thread is useful, even though I use systemd, and have no problem with it, I support any effort to fork, spinoff, derive or otherwise develop any open source software for whatever reason.

The topic is "It's time to move..." and I think the thread demonstrates that it is NOT a good time to abandon ship, but I'm glad people are trying alternatives. Debian is a lot more than the software, or init system. It's the social contract, the commitment to remain "free" and all that other stuff that keeps me loyal. I hope all the derivatives and spinoffs stay loyal to that.

[HuangLao]

I think the thread is useful, even though I use systemd, and have no problem with it, I support any effort to fork, spinoff, derive or otherwise develop any open source software for whatever reason.

The topic is "It's time to move..." and I think the thread demonstrates that it is NOT a good time to abandon ship, but I'm glad people are trying alternatives. Debian is a lot more than the software, or init system. It's the social contract, the commitment to remain "free" and all that other stuff that keeps me loyal. I hope all the derivatives and spinoffs stay loyal to that.

Actually the thread title is "It's time to move..." so move on then. It reminds me of the story of a person in a bad relationship that keeps complaining about the relationship, yet they don't leave it....Just saying. Also, complaining about the guts of Debian in the forum is only helpful to other users, if you want to persuade those with any clout then join the mailing list, IIRC etc....

So, if he is moving on then get on with it already, otherwise it becomes childish drivel.

[pcalvert]

As I far I see the OSMC team is using heavily systemd for managing services, they have customized some services like transmissions and samba. I believe they are happy with this fat init anyway complaining about systemd in the Debian forum can make sense but in the OSMC forum doesn't make sense at all. What I could do is checking if kodi is available on Devuan, it exists an image for RPi made by them.

This is on a Devuan Jessie system:

Code: Select all

$ aptitude install kodi -t jessie-backports -s
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  fonts-roboto{a} kodi kodi-bin{a} kodi-data{a} libcrossguid0v4{a} 
  libjs-iscroll{a} libmicrohttpd10{a} libmysqlclient18{a} libsdl2-2.0-0{a} 
  mysql-common{a} 
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
  javascript-common libcec3v4 libnfs4 libplist2 
0 packages upgraded, 10 newly installed, 0 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
Need to get 22.5 MB of archives. After unpacking 57.3 MB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]

Note: I am using the Debian Jessie backports repository, not the Devuan one.

Phil

[bw123]

So, if he is moving on then get on with it already, otherwise it becomes childish drivel.

Well, at the risk of starting an argument and hijacking a thread, which I am probably not trying to do... That doesn't seem like an enlightened comment because, personally, I have considered doing the same thing as the OP, and also considered technically how to remove systemd from my system, just to see if I could do it succesfully. I honestly don't think it could be done, therefore I am trapped, and you know, as a "free" person I hate to be in that state.

Debian is not my spouse, and I control my computer, it is not an abusive husband to me. I will always win that fight, so your metaphor seems a little weak. Debian users can use whatever software we want, that is clear, so I like to read opinions about what others are doing on their systems.

[Danielsan]

@ Anti

I am pretty sure to have tried antiX 15 on a vm and the installation was identical to the live cd but I installed the 16. The first time I put sid, but after put wrongly the tile manager I was been unable to revert it so I preferred doing a new fresh install putting the Jessie repos. I didn't do any changes just following the normal steps. Beside the fact the default installation is not so cool as the live cd I had to setup the swap file but dphys-swapfile was unavailable. I didn't check nor changes the repos. Then I tried to install aptitude and other packages but apt always tried to bring down a lot of packages many of libreoffice so I got annoyed and I came back to Devuan.

So those were the facts however since a while I have noticed a very sad attitude, no one can express nothing which is in opposition or against the common feelings, systemd is the most trivial example. Anyway since the moment I am always moving toward the personal respect of everyone of you, if you feel annoying or irritated because I criticized something you care please don't forget that you can use a very useful tool: the blocklist; for the rest remember that saying fud, troll, fear or something else it's just your opinion always arguable nothing technical exactly what you are complaining.

[HuangLao]

So, if he is moving on then get on with it already, otherwise it becomes childish drivel.

Well, at the risk of starting an argument and hijacking a thread, which I am probably not trying to do... That doesn't seem like an enlightened comment because, personally, I have considered doing the same thing as the OP, and also considered technically how to remove systemd from my system, just to see if I could do it succesfully. I honestly don't think it could be done, therefore I am trapped, and you know, as a "free" person I hate to be in that state.

Debian is not my spouse, and I control my computer, it is not an abusive husband to me. I will always win that fight, so your metaphor seems a little weak. Debian users can use whatever software we want, that is clear, so I like to read opinions about what others are doing on their systems.

Agreed with users leaning from each others opinions/experiences. So start a thread about how you/we/others are attempting to remove it. Hey guys this is whats working, not working etc... But these threads about how "I am leaving unless....or if Debian does such and such then I am outta here, no really this time I am leaving, three months later (this time I really really mean it)"...are not productive. Note: quotes are subjective reference and in no way intended as actual quotes.

Show the merits of what is or is not working etc...

[millpond]

At the risk of necroposting, but better than creating a new Devuan thread.

Installed Devuan on two systems here.

On a creaky old 32 bit system I used it as an *update* where it installed OK.
But many problems still remain, as it was unable to get rid of some of the underlying rot. And power functions are useless.

On a newer 64 bit system it installed fine as a full install on a clean disk drive.
No real problems encountered. With KDE, power functions such as sleep work fine. KDE works fine stripped of PIM and search.
Oh, had to remove slim from /etc/init.d for the system to boot, and /etc/networking was not smart enough to notice a router change.

OpenVPN works great, so regular networking not an issue. Hate wireless, so not on that system, and cannot vouch for its operation.

Still assembling the system, but everything seems to 'just work' with a few minor, and apparently fixable glitches.

It should be noted that Devuan uses systemd libraries, when needed by apps. I can live with that.

I do not grok the hostility to Devuan by the Debian shills. It *is* very much Debian to the core, and in many ways a purer Debian from the Murdoch perspective of *freedom*.

All Devuan is, after all is said and done, is to be an optional *filter* for RedHat crap.
It is not a real fork.

The major failure of Devuan, and something likely to kill it, is its lack of an open support structure. Sorry, but IRC and mailing lists just dont cut it for a realistic means of dealing of what should become a more public option for users.

Ideally, Devuan would be adopted by Debian as a spin to address users needed traditional Linux functionality - like scriptable logs!!!!

Theoretically, there should eventually be an 'apt-devuan' script that can use the Debain archives, and modift existing and downloaded apps and *sanitize* them to the Devuan framwork.

This would EXPAND the functionality, and probably the popularity of Debian, as it would enable developers to seek alternatives to RedHat's 'solutions' for emerging technologies.

Its software being forced on people that force them into new paradigms they do not want, or are incompatible with their scripts or setups.

An analogy would be Perl.
On some systems I prefer the ancient 5.05. On others 5.12. I am not sure I like the newest versions at all.
But I have the choice. And Perl does give the options to running under earlier versions, built into their newest ones.

Also: Debian is already multilib (in the form of multiarch). Would a /user/lib/divergent/ be totally out of the question??