New hardware trends in CPU/RAM mounting.

[pylkko]

Yeah, but since most batteries last about 2 years, if you use a laptop for 10 years as opposed to a disposable one (for 2 years), then you are going to need to buy like 5 batteries during those ten years. And if you factor that in to the cost, then it becomes dubious whether or not you actually "save" that much... OF course, with a laptop you can choose just to not use a battery.

Another thing bout updating RAM and not CPU is that often it seems to make more sense to downgrade the software. I just recently put two 1 GB sticks into and old Celeron single core (came with 512 MB), and while it now probably will not swap on LXDE, the desktop takes really really long to start. So, maybe just using tinycore or openbox and not updating the RAM would have been more intelligent.

Another example, had a Duo core with a dead battery and a jack that needed to be repaired. Jack repair cost about 60 in this case since I had to swap the component and the battery 70 =130. A new laptop (2 year warranty) with similar specs (equal cpu benchmark and RAM) goes for 220. So, makes you think, is this worth it? Especially as the HDD has quite some bad sectors and almost 10 years old (= might need replacing soon). Especially since the new laptop weighs ⅓ of the old one, is fanless, has USB 3, BT 4.1, uses significantly less power et cetera et cetera.

[edbarx]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

[pylkko]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Hey, what an intelligent point!

[deborah-and-ian]

Yeah, but since most batteries last about 2 years, if you use a laptop for 10 years as opposed to a disposable one (for 2 years), then you are going to need to buy like 5 batteries during those ten years

That might actually be true if you buy one of those ready-to-go notebooks the likes of Acer, Asus, HP or Dell sell. I've had 2 experiences like these: my first laptop was an Asus where the battery crapped out after 3 years. I bought a Chinese one for 20 EUR on ebay and got another 2 years of life out of it. So, 5 years in total and it was still going strong, so I could have used it longer. So, the 2y mark seems like BS to me. With a bit of luck and spare parts, you can keep them around longer. And those devices work for a lot of use cases. Slap Debian with Xfce on a 10y old machine and it still does well with office programmes and such.

But on my 2nd laptop I'm seeing that more and more manufacturers, while not exactly soldering the RAM onto the board, make it harder and harder for laymen to expand their RAM or HD. I've literally had to take apart half of my Acer notebook to put in an SSD drive and an additional RAM slot.

Good alternatives still exist though if one is willing to go a bit more expensive, like a lot of the Thinkpads. Those I'm sure can easily give you 10 years.

Wastefulness makes me sick! My old Asus is happily chugging along at a refugee family's home, an old netbook I've recently bought for 20 EUR is my new caldav/samba server and my mum still uses a 9y old netbook with just the RAM upgraded for light Internet browsing, Youtube and Skype.

[deborah-and-ian]

BTW, I got my recent RAM and HD upgrade for half the price because, I kid you not, the store decided they don't want to sell spare parts anymore and had to get rid of the stock!

[pylkko]

The two year battery figure comes from the assumption that most lithium-polymer batteries can take 500 charge cycles and that if you charge it every day, then you will use up those 500 cycles in two years. This if course doesn't necessarily hold in reality, since you might get more than 500 cycles, or maybe you don't need to charge it daily. For example, if you charge it weekly, then the 500 cycles would las about 10 years!

I believe that there are some products out there that are designed so so that you can essentially change any part to it. Fairphone, for example. And there was at least at one time an ARM-based laptop that was sold in parts and you could change any part to it. However, these are often quite expensive and hard to get. I think the cheapest Fairphone goes for 500€ or something.

[debiman]

i'm sorry, who is supposed to be a troll here?
and why hired?
no honestly, i don't get it.

...

on topic:

Let us discuss what can be done to find hardware that better suites those who want to save money.

i think this is one of the problems right here.
our world is such, you sometimes have to spend more money instead of less, if you want to act responsibly.
computers are a good example, but not the only case.

[deborah-and-ian]

our world is such, you sometimes have to spend more money instead of less, if you want to act responsibly.
computers are a good example, but not the only case.

For laptops that's sadly true. Or at least get a good after market machine. You can do that with used Thinkpads.

[v&n]

our world is such, you sometimes have to spend more money instead of less, if you want to act responsibly.
computers are a good example, but not the only case.

Can you explain that a bit with examples please?

The thread is about machines that have easily upgradable or replaceable parts IF and when required. Why do you think such a machine will necessarily cost more, or that getting the cheaper (and upgradable, after 2-3 years) ones will be irresponsible behaviour? Or did I misunderstand your post?

I'm asking because I have almost always found the opposite to be true, in computers (particularly in desktops & servers, but in laptops too). By cheaper, I don't mean quality-wise or performance-wise cheap, but the ones that *can do* the job currently, and can be upgraded or have their parts replaced later, IF and when required.

[edbarx]

Pyllko's ego was hurt because I mentioned the Three Stooges....

Everyone behaves like a stooge sometime. Why did it hurt you?

[pylkko]

Pyllko's ego was hurt because I mentioned the Three Stooges....
Better I hurry to fetch the nappies.

??

[edbarx]

To moderators and admins:
As this thread has degenerated, please either lock it or delete it. I will NOT take offense at mods/admins taking action to improve the forums' signal to noise ratio.

[pylkko]

the fact that the Novena laptop managed to raise about 3 times it's initial aim (250k USD) indicates that there are people that are some people that are interested in really being able to swap every single part in a laptop. you can even 3d-print the case. but as said, pretty low specced for the price

http://www.dailydot.com/debug/novena-op ... undraiser/

[geoaraujo]

http://www.dailydot.com/debug/novena-op ... undraiser/

Very interesting!

[edbarx]

you can even 3d-print the case. but as said, pretty low specced for the price

Oh come on, this is like when I was suggested to purchase a $4000 laptop just to make sure it supported free and open source software. Paying more to get less? I beg your pardon, not attractive at all.

If I ever decide to build a laptop from scratch I can make the case myself out of thin sheet metal. After all, it is a shallow box with a pair of hinges at one side with punched holes.

What I am interested in at the moment is to find a machine with low energy consumption that is based on i5 - i7 CPUs or better rather than flog my pockets purchasing an inferior product for its price. Yes, energy consumption is a prerequisite: this has nothing to do with the environment, but with running costs.