Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

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Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2016-09-12 01:33

I already moved on to kde5 Stretch, ive been testing it and i think its already possible to migrate to streetch with kde5 and work propertly. At this point, i will wait for Jessie to come to stretch, if it decide to come eventually :mrgreen:

Ive been testing it before with very bad results, but now it seems the whole package (stretch + kde5) is enought mature and working acceptable.

I used Sparky's KDE distro (testing debian based on), which resulted in a very good distro, i strongly recommend it:
http://sparkylinux.org/about/

Main features of Sparky
– Debian testing based
– rolling release
– lightweight, fast & simple
– set of desktops to choose: LXDE, Enlightenment, JWM, KDE, LXQt, Openbox, MATE, Xfce
– ultra light base edition with Openbox or JWM desktops
– most wireless and mobile network cards supported
– set of selected applications, multimedia codecs and plugins
– own repository with a large set of additional applications
– easy hard drive / USB installation

I had no problems with migration apart from those of setting when kde4 to kde5 use differente paths and i think they might have some imcompatibilties.

Before (KDE-4)
Image
Image

After (KDE-5)
Image

Results of migration:
- kodi OK
- Virtualbox OK
- playonlinux OK
- mpd + streamtuner OK
- skype OK
- Google Earth FAIL (I just could install v7 and search function crash)
- Gdrive OK
- Megasync OK
- Linphone OK
- Kmail + Aknoady services OK
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2016-09-13 02:04

Two days of testing, and everithing seems very stable and smooth, there wasnt hardly any crashes (one or two kde's bugs), Graphical enviroment feels more robust than kde4, (there was a CPU kde4 bug looping that is resolved in kde5).

I was afraid to having to come back to jessie, but seeing now, everthing works propertly, i'll stay in testing upto become next stable.

I found it very few differences between Kde4 and kde5, kde5 seems more minimalist, quicker, and kind of finnest and elegant.


Im very glad to have moved to debian testing + Kde 5
:P
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby NFT5 » 2016-09-13 04:17

OK, I'm curious. I'm not a KDE user, other than favouring the Oxygen icons and using Dolphin and DigiKam, but what I'm wondering is what does KDE5 actually do that couldn't be done before, i.e. what benefit is there for those who want to take the risk with Stretch?

Like many users my primary desktop needs are as a means of doing the things I need to do each day. Function over form, the desktop is really just a means of accessing the programs that I use and some short term storage. Stability is paramount. Menu layouts that are, for me, logical and therefore fast. plus some features that make my life behind this screen a little easier. The ability to fit a lot on a screen is important to me, since I can have 3 or 4 Workspaces going at once. Screen real estate is valuable, even with a monitor running at 1920x1080.

What I see, from the screenshots posted, is (from my perspective) enormous space wastage with huge icons, overwide menus, panels and window headers. I'm sure that much of this is changeable, but why would I want to bother going to all the effort of changing KDE to look like MATE/XFCE/LXDE when I could have the original article and, I suspect, a much lighter footprint?

So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2016-09-13 04:51

NFT5 wrote:OK, I'm curious. I'm not a KDE user, other than favouring the Oxygen icons and using Dolphin and DigiKam, but what I'm wondering is what does KDE5 actually do that couldn't be done before, i.e. what benefit is there for those who want to take the risk with Stretch?

Like many users my primary desktop needs are as a means of doing the things I need to do each day. Function over form, the desktop is really just a means of accessing the programs that I use and some short term storage. Stability is paramount. Menu layouts that are, for me, logical and therefore fast. plus some features that make my life behind this screen a little easier. The ability to fit a lot on a screen is important to me, since I can have 3 or 4 Workspaces going at once. Screen real estate is valuable, even with a monitor running at 1920x1080.

What I see, from the screenshots posted, is (from my perspective) enormous space wastage with huge icons, overwide menus, panels and window headers. I'm sure that much of this is changeable, but why would I want to bother going to all the effort of changing KDE to look like MATE/XFCE/LXDE when I could have the original article and, I suspect, a much lighter footprint?

So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?

Hi, NTF5,

First, i never liked small layouts, so im more about kind of win7 layout (panel,icons, etc), also like osx layout (big/medium icons in desktop).. as you said is very changeable, dolphin browser is very versatil
MATE is very good, but it does not have dolphin, neither kontact (akonady framework intergration). in my opinion KDE gives you th whole experience, and is very stable and nowadays as lighter as the rest.

New kde 5 is faster and lighter cos is based on Qt5...,Its also more polished

Ive just tested Kodi, and it seems to work propertly for the first time VAAPI and VDPAU at 1080p in my intel-gm45 chipset, i think this is cos moving to Stretch, for what ive seen, stretch looks pretty stable and mature enought to migrate.

Im very glad, My 2008 laptop, still not coming into obsolescence gap, we're still boosting performance up with Stretch.. :o , I also noticed that Stretch + kde5 consumes some less CPU than Jessie+kde4, with corobarate what i point out.

Now im using with a very good experience:
2G RAM, 1G CPU
- Streetch + Kde 5
- Kernel 4.8 RC6 amd64
- Mesa 12.0.1 (compiled)
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby Ardouos » 2016-09-13 09:56

NFT5 wrote:So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?

If you are happy with KDE4 then stick with KDE4 until it isn't supported or forked. Like KDE3 before being forked to Trinity.

Change isn't always good, but it is not bad either. It took at long time for KDE4 to be stable enough for general use and I feel the same for KDE5.

TBH I have use KDE5 with openSUSE on my laptop temporarily and it was a pretty neat, but still rough around the edges. In time it will be ready and eventually come to stable.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby wizard10000 » 2016-09-13 11:15

NFT5 wrote:...So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?


I've been a KDE evangelist for years and am back in the game after a four-year break exploring fluxbox and openbox, both of which are competent window managers.

KDE is more configurable than any Linux environment there is; I've only found a couple of UI things I wanted to do with KDE and was unable to; and submitted bug reports for both wishlist items :)

KDE is more tightly integrated than most other environments; I routinely disable PIM functions so akonadi is disabled (I use no KDE PIM apps, preferring claws-mail for mail and calendaring). I use a note-taking application that doesn't require akonadi and on file search, baloo is completely turned off, saving me 1.2gb of disk space and a few processor cycles. I prefer to use locate to find stuff and popping open a terminal window in dolphin isn't particularly difficult.

I find myself using yakuake as a terminal emulator most of the time just because I can type a quick command then hide the thing.

But - what switched me back to KDE is that after four years I'd taken fluxbox and openbox about as far as I'd cared to, and decided to deep-dive into KF5, which has been great under Sid but still isn't quite ready for primetime.

I have more processor cores and RAM than I really need (first-generation quad-core i7 laptop, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD, 1GB Nvidia video) and letting that RAM sit didn't make sense to me. At least now more of the previously idle resources are now in use, and the short answer is that an optimized KF5 takes up about 200MB more memory and takes about two seconds longer to boot than an openbox install with roughly the same functionality. My machine uses about 390MB of RAM at idle, which is about half the resources a current Microsoft installation would require.
we see things not as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby NFT5 » 2016-09-13 23:46

Thanks for the replies. As I said, I'm not a KDE user but it has always held a certain fascination and I'm curious.

Ardouos wrote:
NFT5 wrote:So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?

It took at long time for KDE4 to be stable enough for general use and I feel the same for KDE5.

TBH I have use KDE5 with openSUSE on my laptop temporarily and it was a pretty neat, but still rough around the edges. In time it will be ready and eventually come to stable.


wizard10000 wrote:decided to deep-dive into KF5, which has been great under Sid but still isn't quite ready for primetime.


So. I guess that this is pretty much the consensus - looks good but not quite ready yet.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby dasein » 2016-09-14 00:16

NFT5 wrote:So, in objective, measurable terms, why is it better?

Can't speak to KDE 5, but KDE users as a group will invariably tout configurability as KDE's "special sauce." And I concur.

For me, "configurability" goes far beyond screen bling. I can customize KDE to match the task(s) I need to accomplish, rather than having to modify my workflow to accommodate limitations in the GUI. Whether that's window tabbing when I need to manage multiple apps simultaneously for a single task, or whether that's quick development of a custom "10-foot UI" for an HTPC, KDE lets me create an optimal workspace quickly and then gets out of my way. It is just too handy.

My biggest beef with KDE is the devs' insistence on rewriting the damn thing from scratch every three years. "If it works" and all that.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bw123 » 2016-09-14 00:41

My biggest beef with KDE is the devs' insistence on rewriting the damn thing from scratch every three years.


Yeah, what you said. That's why I won't even consider upgrading until plasma 5 is stable for about 3-4 months. Hopefully the parts they messed up won't even get to the repo, that's what happened with KDE4, it's missing some nice doodads, but it's very stable running the main repo version.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby eor2004 » 2016-09-14 06:11

Stretch Plasma 5 Ready?... I have tested it a week ago and this what I have to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7fCQlUhj0
Debian Stretch x64, Gnome Shell 3.22, Kernel Linux 4.9.0-1-amd64, Pentium Dual-Core E5300 @ 2.6Ghz, Gigabyte G41M-ES2L, Intel 4 Series Integrated Graphics Controller, 1Tb Caviar Black WD1001FALS.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2016-09-14 07:08

eor2004 wrote:Stretch Plasma 5 Ready?... I have tested it a week ago and this what I have to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7fCQlUhj0


Stretch in a few months will go into freeze, so its suppose to be enought stable to be able to work with it,
and KDE 5 as you all know its's in most of the code a port to QT5, so this means, by right know its already very stable as its contain most of the same re-writing code as kde4. There's long time since serveral distros are using KDE5 (opensuse, kubuntu, etc), what means Kde5 is enought mature.

Im writing you from KDE5-Stretch , and everithink is working perfect, (no dolphin crashes, etc), as i told before, graphics enviroment, feels more robust, no flickering, not tiling, no crashes from plasma-desktop, less cpu consume, Mesa 12.0.2 incorpored, quicker than KDE4, more minimalist, more polished, Im really delighted..

Installing Sparky KDE, its the easyiest way i found to install stretch with kde.



regards
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2016-09-14 07:26

4 Oct 2016
- KDE 5.8 LTS (first LTS :D )
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby Swansen » 2017-01-07 05:15

it is not ready... kde is a big project. KDE was asking for help even rounding up Jessie issues, let alone the kde5/plasma5 migration..(to bad really they didn't just sit on kde 3 until qt 5 was finalized).

i would most definitely leave stretch and kde alone unless you want to help bugfix.

but i second a third party compiled distro for KDE on deb in testing.

i've only had issues with debian testing and KDE, pretty solid for a couple years now, same in stretch. Network manager just changing its mind about whether or not it wants to turn wifi card on at boot or not. taskbar crashing a graphics driver(freeze but cursor movement), the 'alternatives' option for some of the desktop items are broken, one widget caused crashes, could only install from a weekly build, caused a conflict with LXQT..

Apper is broken, 'qtquick' has some broken component, and as apper is broken, the updater in the system tray is also broken, but no wonder as KDE has moved on to Muon, but, somehow that didn't get into the debian side of things? apper is no longer supported, i found that out recently...

at least in my case, KDE 5 was just as broken as KD4 was in testing...
Last edited by Swansen on 2017-01-08 04:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby bester69 » 2017-01-07 11:21

Swansen wrote:it is not ready... kde is a big project. KDE was asking for help even rounding up Jessie issues, let alone the kde5/plasma5 migration..(to bad really they didn't just sit on kde 3 until qt 5 was finalized).

i would most definitely leave stretch and kde alone unless you want to help bugfix.

but i second a third party compiled distro for KDE on deb in testing.

i've only had issues with debian testing and KDE, pretty solid for a couple years now, same in stretch. Network manager just changing its mind about whether or not it wants to turn wifi card on at boot or not. taskbar crashing a graphics driver(freeze but cursor movement), the 'alternatives' option for some of the desktop items are broken, one widget caused crashes, could only install from a weekly build, caused a conflict with LXQT..

Apper is broken, 'qtquick' has some broken component, and as apper is broken, the updater in the system tray is also broken..

at least in my case, KDE 5 was just as broken as KD4 was in testing...


Im now around one year working with Stretch and KDE5,its solid as rock, no crashes, everithing works perfect, i didnt see anything wrong or missbehavior.., indeeed Streetch Xorg, sddm and all together works better in my computer than Jessie components..

So, i guess its your own experiencie, but i just can tell you im very glad i migrated to Stretch+KDE5 a year ago, I can tell you KDE5 its very stable ..

If you know something about development , you must understand KDE5 its most of it KDE4 code, its just has been ported to qt5, which is most of the cases a mechanictal task whose bugs tend to be quickly fixed, so It has sense its even more stable than KDE4, KDE4 stopped development, and new bugs are fixed in KDE5.

KDE5 = KDE4 ported + Some new litle features and modifications


Anyways, if you've been having problems with testing and KDE5 (I had too when tried), i'd recommend you to start with Sparky 4.4, then you can remove sparky repositories and update all packages from testing. You'll see how you dont get into troubles... :wink: I've donr this way..

Ive a Livecd sparky 4.4 as a base distro Stretch+kde5 if i needed to install from zero..
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Re: Stretch + Kde5 (its ready!!)

Postby Swansen » 2017-01-08 04:34

KDE Neon

Yeah, i've always had good luck when i was using a third party distro KDE centric built on debian, but always varying results with KDE directly over debian. maybe except KDE 3.5 .

That being said, i've been a little out of the KDE loop as of late, they've gone through so many transitions in the last few years. i just spent the last few days catching back up. KDE Neon looks really promising right now for a simple KDE-centric distro on a stable base. Which is weird given that LTS ubuntu is built on debian testing... Looking at what is going on with Neon, i can see completely that plasma 5 is totally stable as of right now, and i couldn't believe the 300-400mb foot print. that's so low, and something KDE had been promising for some time now, its really great to finally see it.

However, that just wasn't the case for me, i was looking at 900mb idle at boot(with various other issues). right now i have LXQT working without issues for me, and on a debian base i like. If i run into issues i'll look at KDE neon next.
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