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Why cant we've something like Android?

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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RU55EL
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#16 Post by RU55EL »

bester69 wrote: I dont buy you the point of stable debian doesnt have crashes, indeed what really call my attention was that how buggy linux was (and is), when its suppose to be the opposite to windows. But when i refer to linux, i mean the DE with their apps, thats what is constantly crashing even whith a clean Stable debian version. Becouse in that clean debian stable you're going to install Libreoffice, Chrome, and others apps that eventually and when you do something weird, they just close themselves (dont tell me it doesnt happend to you, i dont believe it), ...
I'm not trying to sell you anything. Believe me or not, I really don't care. It just surprises me that you seem to have so many problems with Debian. I run Debian stable with the default Gnome desktop, with a certain degree of command line use. It's the most stable operating system I've used in the last 30 years.

I sometimes play around with some other GNU/Linux operating systems. I recently installed Fedora 24 on one of my computers and was surprised to find it also very stable, although I've only been running it on one computer for a few weeks, so this is just a first impression. Come to think of it, I did find Ubuntu somewhat glitchy.

Anyway, I hope you have better luck with your system in the future.

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#17 Post by pendrachken »

bester69 wrote:If you have used Android anytime, you will understand the point of this post.

I think if you think of it carefully it has make a lot of sense, becouse Android is a Great Comercial Product (first Smarttphone product in my opionion), There is millons of euros behind this system, enought to make it feel perfect, to make it feel nice; every dateil, thousands of hours of testing searching for any possibles bugs, i supppose Andorid such as Osx has long beyong from what open community can achieve, mainly because the ammonunt of hours of proffesionals developers behind them.

but, hey!!, I wish open source community products such as Ubuntu gets soon to that point eventually.


You must not have used Android much either.


First off, what Android UI are you looking at? AOSP / Google Nexus "stock" Android, Slightly modified stock Android from Motorola, heavily modified TouchWiz from Samsung? Maybe some who knows what the hell has been done to the UI cheap $20 tablet from China? Maybe the super locked down Amazon version they run on their tablets?


Secondly, Android crashes. Apps crash and force quit, system level code crashes, bootloaders crash and bootloop. About the only thing that's better about Android is that is isn't as locked down ( for the most part, with exceptions like the Amazon tablets ) as iOS devices are.

Thirdly, Good luck getting security updates unless you run a Nexus device, most devices don't get updates much after 6 months from release. and there are gaping security holes going back from 5+ years in the Android codebase that are still being discovered today.


TL;DR: Android is a turd, but is at least less soggy than iOS.
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#18 Post by Ardouos »

RU55EL wrote: Sounds like Gnome to me...
Yep...
@bester: I do not disagree to the notion of an "attractive DE" as long as it is a choice. People do spend a lot of time creating themes so you can choose to have one. But please... nothing like Android.
WHY CANT WE'VE SOMETHING LIKE ANDROID?
Because then it'll be Android? Buy a tablet or a phone and you will have that experience. :)
bester69 wrote: Android seems well proteceted, i've not even been able to root it up to date, looking some hack on internet.
As long as Android has backdoors in, it never will be. Period.
tomazzi wrote: Another aspect is privacy - but I'm not going to waste my time on discussing it right now - this is a *big* topic - so I'm only going to say that today, the problem is not with "old-fashioned" viruses - but with the constantly violated right for privacy.
Yes, yes and yes.
tomazzi wrote: Oh really? Every windows <desktop> crashes usually twice an hour --snip--
Lets not forget the many forced updates for Windows 10 that to this day "broke" many computer systems... Costing people money.

You can never escape from bugs, but Debian stable is the most solid system I have ever used. With Debian, people can create their own experience, from a full fledged DE to a typewriter (so on and so forth...) and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#19 Post by Nili »

Just as I planned you'd answer by using FrankenDebian method by mixing Linux 4.7-4.8 kernel from Ubuntu repo.
If I didn't answer that ironic truth. You'll never understand what's Debian communities thinking.
You'll end up "Why?! Why!? Why!? you do still use 3.16 it's ridiculious. I don't get you guys Debianies" like you always did forever. :lol:
Everything that you've done up until now are according to my plan.
All your cocky statement I've made you answer like this on purpose. 8)

Let's see what will Debian communities respond with your mixing Linux 4.7-4.8 on Debian with Ubuntu repo
Will they have better reason to stick with 3.16 than that or they're going to agree with your FrankenDebian method.
I'll looking forward to it. :wink:
Not far away, but this quote received a reply on this topic :)

I'm using stable repository since the 1rst day i hit Debian stable
Start-Date: 2015-07-19 13:02:32
Up to this moment i didn't get a single crash, block or stall. In my opinion Debian is a strong stone.

Edit: Sorry, but i don't like too a Windows or Android clone. I like Debian, for what it is or presented to me/us.

P.S. Where there is a shell, there's a way...
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#20 Post by dasein »

I have never been able to figure out why folks feed this adolescent troll.

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#21 Post by bester69 »

I wonder how many hours of testing are behind all of the thousands of small apps in debian's repositories. I suppose some apps (most important) and the DE's can be very well tested as they are very used and needed, but the rest of small apps, they might be crown of small litle hidden bugs.

Im sure but im not writing down bugs that even in stable sometimes , some apps closed unexpecteraerly;i can rembeber when i used Jessie and kde4 , libreoffice, okular, dolphin, gwenview some other apps closing form time to time (it wasnt something that occurs often, perhaps once in a week),.

I now can rembeber a bug i detect in jessie-kde4, im not sure if they fixed it by now:
1- open dolphin
2- open embeded konsole in dolphon (F4)
3- close dolphin without closing previously embeded konsole
4- open again dolphin and it crashes (becouse embeded konsole)

So, even when its true that debian stable its pretty stable in comparison with the rest of distros, there a lot of small hidden bugs that are not fixed, perhaps because are difficult to contact or because are very little important and doesnt affect the regular use of the app.

So perhpas you re talking from your own experience, Gnome might be very free of bugs, i cant say the same about KDE4 (also its true kde is more complex and has more features, so the probably of fail is bigger)..
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#22 Post by bester69 »

Ardouos wrote:
RU55EL wrote: Sounds like Gnome to me...
Yep...
@bester: I do not disagree to the notion of an "attractive DE" as long as it is a choice. People do spend a lot of time creating themes so you can choose to have one. But please... nothing like Android.

....
I think themes is OK, but its not what linux need, We need a great DE with thousand of ours behind, that result free o f bugs, in a integrate, cohesive, nice, smooth , intelligible, system. Something like what ubuntu try to bring to regular users, but I'd like something more like Android or Osx, I find theses two DE's amazing if they were available under opens source. Im sure in a few years we will reach that level of quality in DE like unity /kde, etc..
bester69 wrote:STOP 2030 globalists demons, keep the fight for humanity freedom against NWO...

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#23 Post by bester69 »

pendrachken wrote:...

You must not have used Android much either.

First off, what Android UI are you looking at? AOSP / Google Nexus "stock" Android, Slightly modified stock Android from Motorola, heavily modified TouchWiz from Samsung? Maybe some who knows what the hell has been done to the UI cheap $20 tablet from China? Maybe the super locked down Amazon version they run on their tablets?

Secondly, Android crashes. Apps crash and force quit, system level code crashes, bootloaders crash and bootloop. About the only thing that's better about Android is that is isn't as locked down ( for the most part, with exceptions like the Amazon tablets ) as iOS devices are.

Thirdly, Good luck getting security updates unless you run a Nexus device, most devices don't get updates much after 6 months from release. and there are gaping security holes going back from 5+ years in the Android codebase that are still being discovered today.

TL;DR: Android is a turd, but is at least less soggy than iOS.
SO, according to you, They (Android) must be some turd, becouse they are vey negligent when devices doesn get updates after 6months,what would be they thinking about? :) . The think is, millons of users are using Android's derivades in its devices, and they dont feel worry about security but otherwise; The apps gets updates constantlly, and the rest of thing, is to be too much paranoic.

Still i dont know about any user that has reported about stealing its money, and demanding to the company for negligent in the security...., Do anyone know something about this? :shock:
bester69 wrote:STOP 2030 globalists demons, keep the fight for humanity freedom against NWO...

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#24 Post by eor2004 »

IMHO, Android runs great depending on the hardware it is being installed on, and it is sometimes not that great in terms of robustness and usability, it freezes, gets slow with some apps (hardware limitations), you don't have a DE choice or other features like upgrading OS & Kernels and stuff, sometimes you have to pay $$$ for some apps, don't get me wrong, I like Android as OS in phone or tablet better that Apple & Microsoft stuff but definitely not for PC use!
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#25 Post by RU55EL »

bester69 wrote:I think themes is OK, but its not what linux need, We need a great DE with thousand of ours behind, that result free o f bugs, in a integrate, cohesive, nice, smooth , intelligible, system. [...]
My point is that Gnome is a great desktop environment. Rock solid, cohesive, smooth, and efficient. (Although, what works well for me, may not work for someone else.)

Do you know why Debian stable is called stable? It is not about how rock solid it is, it's about how the operating system is developed. The result of Debian freeze and what follows after, is Debian becoming stable.

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#26 Post by RU55EL »

dasein wrote:I have never been able to figure out why folks feed this adolescent troll.
You don't want the Trolls to starve! ...do you?

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#27 Post by eor2004 »

bester69 wrote: I dont buy you the point of stable debian doesnt have crashes, indeed what really call my attention was that how buggy linux was (and is), when its suppose to be the opposite to windows. But when i refer to linux, i mean the DE with their apps, thats what is constantly crashing even whith a clean Stable debian version. Becouse in that clean debian stable you're going to install Libreoffice, Chrome, and others apps that eventually and when you do something weird, they just close themselves (dont tell me it doesnt happend to you, i dont believe it), ...
The consequences of creating a Frankendebian I guess? or maybe something is wrong with your system/hardware, I do have experienced some little freezes and DE crashes from time to time but is not a showstopper, everything else is working fine.

The concept of stability in Debian:
mor wrote:There is a widely spread misconception about what "stable" means when referred to the debian release: stable does not mean solid and reliable per se, it means unchanging, invariable, in the sense that its components are almost "set in stone", only receiving minor and very attentively selected updates/upgrades, mostly just security ones. As a consequence of that and the fact that before being released is thoroughly tested, debian stable is also stable as in solid, reliable.
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#28 Post by alan stone »

bester69 wrote:We need a great DE with thousand of ours behind, that result free o f bugs, in a integrate, cohesive, nice, smooth , intelligible, system. Something like what ubuntu try to bring to regular users, but I'd like something more like Android or Osx, I find theses two DE's amazing if they were available under opens source.
FYI: The formula for the perfect Linux desktop.

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#29 Post by bw123 »

I now can rembeber a bug i detect in jessie-kde4, im not sure if they fixed it by now:
1- open dolphin
2- open embeded konsole in dolphon (F4)
3- close dolphin without closing previously embeded konsole
4- open again dolphin and it crashes (becouse embeded konsole)
They never fixed that bug because it doesn't exist, it was a figment of your jesstretch-homerolled ubuntu patched kernel driver 777 permissions wreck of a machine.

BTW, can't you install android on a pc? I'm surprised you haven't tried it. Don't let the critics get you down, keep acting crazy man that's what being young is all about.

On another topic, you should really check out who runs and develops debian, they are some of the best of the best. Hard working selfless people. You might offer them an apology someday when you realize how much they give and give and keep on giving year after year.
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#30 Post by GarryRicketson »

dasein wrote:I have never been able to figure out why folks feed this adolescent troll.
Fatten it up for the barbecue.
Postby bw123 » BTW, can't you install android on a pc? I'm surprised you haven't tried it.
Heh, heh, My youngest kid, not so young any more, is now 18,
but a while back he actually did try, it did not work,... but I did
give him 100pts for the very imaginative attempt, and actually
he has managed to create something that looks a lot like
what is shown in the image, except instead of "Microsft apps",
they are Linux/Debian apts, like "libre office", "note pad" etc,...
He likes the ICONS, and all that kind of junk, so he uses and
makes them,..
I don't like it, but it is what he likes, and it is his computer so
he can make it look like he wants.
.
He even has one "theme", mostly a "background", but when he
uses it , it looks like and says it is Windows XP,....but it isn't.

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#31 Post by bester69 »

alan stone wrote:
bester69 wrote:We need ....rce.
FYI: The formula for the perfect Linux desktop.
I think that is the reason to this post. :wink: , Perhpas we need a comercial cheap distro linux (easilly available) and with the support of a big firm behind. Some kind of Osx, a commercial closed compatible linux system, based on a open source base like hapend with chrome and chromium. Or perhaps in a eventually futures Windows develop its DE over linux kernel, so we would be able to run all propietary apps over linux, mixing this way open source apps with closed apps. That would be really cool!!

I suppose one day linux will be able to be a crossover platform.
bester69 wrote:STOP 2030 globalists demons, keep the fight for humanity freedom against NWO...

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#32 Post by alan stone »

bester69 wrote:Perhpas we need a comercial cheap distro linux (easilly available) and with the support of a big firm behind. ... That would be really cool!!
How about you developing and launching a commercial, perfect, easily available, linux deskstop yourself then, according to your wishes, and for cheap?

QED? :mrgreen:

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#33 Post by bester69 »

alan stone wrote:
bester69 wrote:Perhpas we need a comercial cheap distro linux (easilly available) and with the support of a big firm behind. ... That would be really cool!!
How about you developing and launching a commercial, perfect, easily available, linux deskstop yourself then, according to your wishes, and for cheap?

QED? :mrgreen:
hehe, i cant do that, im a turd.. :lol:
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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#34 Post by RU55EL »

pendrachken wrote:[...]Android is a turd, but is at least less soggy than iOS.
Nobody said that you were a turd!

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Re: Why cant we've something like Android?

#35 Post by qyron »

bester69 wrote:
alan stone wrote:
bester69 wrote:We need ....rce.
FYI: The formula for the perfect Linux desktop.
I think that is the reason to this post. :wink: , Perhpas we need a comercial cheap distro linux (easilly available) and with the support of a big firm behind. Some kind of Osx, a commercial closed compatible linux system, based on a open source base like hapend with chrome and chromium. Or perhaps in a eventually futures Windows develop its DE over linux kernel, so we would be able to run all propietary apps over linux, mixing this way open source apps with closed apps. That would be really cool!!

I suppose one day linux will be able to be a crossover platform.
Try Elementary OS. Google it.

Makes a GNU/Linux system almost idiot proof: the way the programmers set it up for installation, you get to keep it. Don't touch it. Don't tweak it. Just use it and be glad you have it and that it is nice looking.

And following your original argument: Android is far from flawless. Far.
I'm an Android user myself and my phone is hardly crash free and I don't press it with apps. I have it almost stock and the thing crashes. Chrome stalls and refuses to open pages. Youtube freezes. System freezes. I've even had the damn thing trying to dial USSD codes while I was trying to make a phone call.
Recently it's starting to warn me for updating Java, which, surprisingly, I can't because the hardware is outdated. I /could/should mention other problems but I won't because it becomes boring after some time.

Android is what it is. Let's keep it that way and hope it will improve. Oh, and by the way, there is a new competitor on the horizon. Ever heard about Tizen?

Regarding stability when it comes to Debian... Stable branch is pointed to stability/reliability. When I feel my machine getting slower, its because I've been fumbling it. I've installed machines that kept working flawless for years, in the hands of inexperienced users. It works.
And I know of a few companies that use Debian in its testing branch as a production environment (office grunt work, 2D/3D design, CGI/CGA, etc, etc...) and it works flawless. And they use testing in other to get the more cutting edge software versions as ASAP. And do they put those machines under pressure.

After reading all your posts, I can only say that you sound to me as an entry-level user, more worried with the eye candy and the shell polishing than the actual works of the machine itself.
I was a M$ user for years. Every single time a new OS release was out I had to take "driving lessons" again in order to know how to work it. My machines were outdated in a breeze to cope with the constantly increasing demands of the OS. Should I carry on?

GNU/Linux in whatever incarnation you take it is oriented towards user freedom. You can do what you want with your machine. Unlike company produced SO that lock you out.

I've had people telling me Linux would damage the hardware. Less than honest techs from (big and small) hardware stores saying that using Linux would void warranties. The most far-fetch it went for me was having someone tell me it was illegal to run Linux in a machine bought with a M$W OS.
Most people talk badly about Linux because they ignore what it is about and there is a _lot_ of money being put down to push FOSS aside. When the EeePC arrived to the market it was a breath of fresh air having the option between Ubuntu and M$ OS. After a few batches of machines shipped with Ubuntu, the gates closed. The only good that remained behind is that ASUS today willingly (at least in my country) admits that you are entitled to do whatever you want with the hardware and refunds the OS value in their machines if you return the license.

Linux is a good solution. Debian is a rock solid distro. A lot more out there are. Take your pick. One is certain to make your fill.
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