4GB RAM minimum for today!

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Nili · #16 Post by **Nili** » 2016-12-16 07:55

Debian absolutely it works very well with 2GB RAM. If draw all my scrots on Desktop Screenshots thread, I haven't spent more than 200MB RAM on my busy time.

I can run simultaneously (GUI) Browser, File Manager, Music Player, Theme Manager, (CLI) apps too, even watching my 20TB collection 60-FPS 1080p with mpv without the slightest disturbance.
I'm runing 2GB RAM since 10 years, last 4 years with Debian.

It is therefore relative, not exactly correct regarding minimum of 4GB RAM.

Debian vanilla (netinst) boots with 20MB RAM. Who knows how to use it properly does not spend anything in vain.

bester69 · #17 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-16 08:23

dasein wrote:Truth be told, I run KDE4 (minus the PIM cruft) quite comfortably in one gig on my HTPC. But I also don't ask that rig to do anything else.

yes, KDE4 runws well with 1GB if you dont use akonadi framework, what for me, its main reason next to dolphin to be using KDE.., KDE without akonadi its the same a light DE (MATE or XFCE).
Even So, if you use open more than 12 tabs, you can get into problemas.

We re by now in 2017, it hasnt made many sense to try keeping with those small ammounts of RAM. Same happend with 32bits, they're all obsolence, people you must upgrade, you cant help it

bester69 · #18 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-16 08:29

dasein wrote:Another pointless thread from this clueless adolescent OP.

2GB of RAM is tight but perfectly workable if one doesn't pretend that RAM is somehow infinite, or that being gratuitously wasteful of RAM somehow results in a spontaneous increase in the amount of RAM inside one's macine.

I routinely run KDE 4, multiple browsers, and the occasional instance of GIMP and/or LibreOffice on a 10 year old laptop with 2GB of RAM and no swap at all. I only occasionally run into problems, simply by closing apps I'm not actually using, disabling Javascript and Flash, etc.

It isn't about a problem with DE, or with the browser (though browsers are notorious for memory leaks), and certainly not with Debian. It's a matter of "Don't do stupid crap."

I dont think open a few tabs, an try do your things its a matter od stupidity, I'm using KDE5 Stretch, i Had 2Gb as well and i got into problem many times a week, that's the reason i had to buy more ram, i was fed up of having to killall my browser to stop swapping.

regards,

bester69 · #19 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-16 08:35

dasein wrote:Another pointless thread from this clueless adolescent OP.

..

I have funny talking about anything with all of you..We're offtopic, come on..

dont be so rude with me

pylkko · #20 Post by **pylkko** » 2016-12-16 08:43

GarryRicketson wrote:

Well what if you need to run VM's or do some heavy compiling.
Even with 2 VM s running, and FireFox,browser with several tabs open....I am usually averagingfull
about 750 to 800 mb of actual ram used, I do have 2 gb available .

But it is true , "heavy compiling" would make it higher.
At the moment, using "OpenBsd" I am using 461 mb ram.

It depends. If I start a few non graphical instance of BSD that do little in the background, then sure, they will not consume more memory than some hundreds of MB. But, some people buy a computer with lots of RAM/CPU and serve many virtual machines to other "thinclients" on their LAN. I read about this in a blog of some guy and he recommended 32 GB. Not perhaps a normal use situation, but still possible. If you had many people using full OS on the same machine, then you would probably want as much RAM as possible. For example, I have win 10 VM that freezes if I don't allocate 4 GB for it. Now if you run that on top of a heavy DE (like GNOME/KDE) on Debian you're easily up to 6 GB or more. This also applies if you have one machine (no VM) but many people are logged on at the same time into a DE (like one being locked in the background while another is using their own profile).

Also, in development RAM is quite useful. You can compile large sets in RAM more rapidly than even on an SSD. Or if you need to test software that you develop on many OS's (and therefore have the other OS virtualized in the background).

edbarx · #21 Post by **edbarx** » 2016-12-16 09:28

bester69 wrote:4GB RAM minimum for today!

Imagine a student having a short term memory of that size...., they would pass their examinations like a breeze with flying colours!

phenest · #22 Post by **phenest** » 2016-12-16 11:21

Segfault wrote:
phenest wrote:In fact, my laptop which has 32GB, is at this moment only using 1.4GB running Gnome 3 with Claws Mail and Chromium (1 tab) open. Then I started playing The Shining in HD with MPV, started Rhythmbox playing Pink Floyd, then started System Monitor and Nautilus. 1.7GB used.
Fascinating. I've always wondered why some people add odd amounts of RAM to their computers. First, it costs money, second, it is a waste of energy. It must be the same thing that makes them to buy pickup trucks and/or ugly SUV's. Some dark desire that cannot be overridden by common sense. My condolences.

What I spend my money on is no concern of yours.

MALsPa · #23 Post by **MALsPa** » 2016-12-16 12:51

dasein wrote:2GB of RAM is tight but perfectly workable

Yep. 2 GB is fine, 4 GB or more is better, and it depends on the user and what's being done. The computer I'm typing this from has "only" 2 GB RAM. I have Debian and Arch on it, but also openSUSE (with KDE). KDE runs fine. I don't often run with a dozen or more tabs open in the web browser, though. Too messy; I make use of the History. And/or bookmarks.

Edit: I should also point out that I have another computer, 2 GB RAM; that one struggles with Chromium and Firefox and isn't all that great with "lighter" web browsers. I wouldn't even try running KDE on that machine. Obviously, RAM isn't the only thing to consider.

pendrachken · #24 Post by **pendrachken** » 2016-12-17 00:57

Segfault wrote:
phenest wrote:In fact, my laptop which has 32GB, is at this moment only using 1.4GB running Gnome 3 with Claws Mail and Chromium (1 tab) open. Then I started playing The Shining in HD with MPV, started Rhythmbox playing Pink Floyd, then started System Monitor and Nautilus. 1.7GB used.
Fascinating. I've always wondered why some people add odd amounts of RAM to their computers. First, it costs money, second, it is a waste of energy. It must be the same thing that makes them to buy pickup trucks and/or ugly SUV's. Some dark desire that cannot be overridden by common sense. My condolences.

Uhh, maybe because it is required for WORK? I need 24-32GB, with a current 32GB installed.

I constantly run at least one VM ( runs my Linux stuff ) that has at least 4GB RAM dedicated to it on this workstation. Then, if Lightroom is open my gallery chews through 2-8GB RAM depending on what collection set I have open, the more photos and previews being loaded = more RAM used.

Toss in opening a 4752x3168 or larger image to edit in Photoshop at the same time and that can easily eat up to 10GB RAM depending on how many adjustment layers are being used. Assuming the heaviest use that is 10+8+4 = 22GB RAM so there is 10 GB left over for system / browser / whatever use.

You are welcome to try doing this workload on a system with 4-8GB of RAM if you want.... just be prepared to spend all day swapping out to disk when trying to get anything done.

oswaldkelso · #25 Post by **oswaldkelso** » 2016-12-18 13:16

To answer the OP... No I don't need even 1GB for my everyday tasks, though some of my PCs do have upto 4GB. I want the same interface on all my computers and I have a need for speed on even the powerpc's and Celerons. My main desktop is nearly 10 years old and several people comment on how fast it is. I only need libre office for work, Seamonkey and a few utilities. On my desktop I run Claws mail so could add another 100MB.

2.0 MiB + 578.0 KiB = 2.6 MiB tint2
3.2 MiB + 94.0 KiB = 3.3 MiB hald
3.3 MiB + 467.0 KiB = 3.8 MiB bash (3)
3.7 MiB + 278.0 KiB = 3.9 MiB dhclient (2)
3.5 MiB + 569.5 KiB = 4.1 MiB wicd-monitor
3.9 MiB + 646.5 KiB = 4.5 MiB openbox
3.5 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 4.6 MiB leafpad
4.7 MiB + 542.5 KiB = 5.2 MiB wicd
4.3 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 5.4 MiB lilyterm
6.7 MiB + 1.5 MiB = 8.2 MiB spacefm
8.1 MiB + 1.5 MiB = 9.6 MiB ROX-Filer
10.4 MiB + 1.8 MiB = 12.2 MiB Xorg
10.9 MiB + 2.1 MiB = 13.0 MiB wicd-client
75.5 MiB + 1.6 MiB = 77.1 MiB soffice.bin
183.4 MiB + 1.8 MiB = 185.2 MiB seamonkey
---------------------------------
365.4 MiB
=================================

Nili · #26 Post by **Nili** » 2016-12-19 09:54

I don't need 1GB as well, 200 MB here. Managing a distro weight i see the same as selecting the proper food for feeding.

Code: Select all

nili ~ $ ps_mem
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program

184.0 KiB +  81.5 KiB = 265.5 KiB	startx
172.0 KiB + 170.5 KiB = 342.5 KiB	xinit
488.0 KiB + 176.0 KiB = 664.0 KiB	systemd-journald
604.0 KiB + 166.0 KiB = 770.0 KiB	conky
764.0 KiB + 164.5 KiB = 928.5 KiB	systemd-logind
668.0 KiB + 298.5 KiB = 966.5 KiB	login
788.0 KiB + 258.0 KiB =   1.0 MiB	dbus-daemon
900.0 KiB + 352.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	sudo
  1.0 MiB + 207.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	systemd-udevd
  1.0 MiB + 801.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB	spectrwm
  1.5 MiB + 409.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	bash
  1.9 MiB + 228.0 KiB =   2.1 MiB	systemd
  5.9 MiB +   1.1 MiB =   7.0 MiB	urxvt
  4.8 MiB +   4.4 MiB =   9.2 MiB	spacefm
  9.8 MiB +   5.4 MiB =  15.1 MiB	Xorg
 13.5 MiB +   4.2 MiB =  17.7 MiB	deadbeef-gtkui
 44.9 MiB +   5.6 MiB =  50.6 MiB	mpv
 81.1 MiB +   4.2 MiB =  85.2 MiB	palemoon
---------------------------------
                        198.0 MiB
=================================
nili ~ $

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. - Leonardo da Vinci

KISS Principle

What's better for me — the minimal bootable CD-ROM or the full CDs? -- Debian: It depends, but we think that in many cases the minimal CD image is better

bester69 · #27 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-19 14:40

1,7Gb just with Internet browser opened

imagenes gratis

GarryRicketson · #28 Post by **GarryRicketson** » 2016-12-19 15:10

I think I will stick with what I have,.. 749mb, used when 2 browsers and a few
tabs,.... and other things running in the background,....

It goes up a little (776 mb ) with my pacman game running on Dosbox.

RU55EL · #29 Post by **RU55EL** » 2016-12-19 17:21

With my normal daily complement of software:

Code: Select all

russel@u55a:~$ sudo ps_mem.py
[sudo] password for russel: 
 Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program

132.0 KiB +  20.5 KiB = 152.5 KiB	minissdpd
140.0 KiB +  33.5 KiB = 173.5 KiB	cat
164.0 KiB +  35.0 KiB = 199.0 KiB	gnome-pty-helper
188.0 KiB +  26.0 KiB = 214.0 KiB	acpid
224.0 KiB +  17.0 KiB = 241.0 KiB	start-pulseaudi
196.0 KiB +  50.5 KiB = 246.5 KiB	atd
256.0 KiB +  37.0 KiB = 293.0 KiB	agetty
168.0 KiB + 133.5 KiB = 301.5 KiB	rdnssd (2)
300.0 KiB +  60.5 KiB = 360.5 KiB	rtkit-daemon
260.0 KiB + 100.5 KiB = 360.5 KiB	rpc.idmapd
324.0 KiB +  76.0 KiB = 400.0 KiB	cron
316.0 KiB +  89.0 KiB = 405.0 KiB	dbus-launch
388.0 KiB +  71.5 KiB = 459.5 KiB	systemd-timesyncd
528.0 KiB +  18.5 KiB = 546.5 KiB	ssh-agent
512.0 KiB +  82.5 KiB = 594.5 KiB	xprop
456.0 KiB + 160.0 KiB = 616.0 KiB	rpcbind
676.0 KiB + 113.0 KiB = 789.0 KiB	dconf-service
648.0 KiB + 162.0 KiB = 810.0 KiB	rpc.statd
640.0 KiB + 189.0 KiB = 829.0 KiB	at-spi-bus-launcher
748.0 KiB + 105.0 KiB = 853.0 KiB	dnsmasq
796.0 KiB +  61.0 KiB = 857.0 KiB	systemd-logind
372.0 KiB + 534.0 KiB = 906.0 KiB	avahi-daemon (2)
672.0 KiB + 235.0 KiB = 907.0 KiB	gconfd-2
716.0 KiB + 219.0 KiB = 935.0 KiB	at-spi2-registryd
812.0 KiB + 173.0 KiB = 985.0 KiB	gvfs-mtp-volume-monitor
788.0 KiB + 222.0 KiB =   1.0 MiB	gvfsd
792.0 KiB + 226.0 KiB =   1.0 MiB	gvfs-goa-volume-monitor
808.0 KiB + 227.0 KiB =   1.0 MiB	gvfsd-burn
992.0 KiB +  83.5 KiB =   1.1 MiB	htop
  1.0 MiB + 129.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	tmux
  1.1 MiB +  76.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	bluetoothd
988.0 KiB + 246.0 KiB =   1.2 MiB	gvfsd-trash
  1.0 MiB + 183.0 KiB =   1.2 MiB	gvfsd-fuse
  1.1 MiB + 206.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	gvfs-gphoto2-volume-monitor
  1.3 MiB +  96.0 KiB =   1.4 MiB	exim4
  1.1 MiB + 348.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB	gvfs-afc-volume-monitor
  1.4 MiB + 266.5 KiB =   1.6 MiB	gdm3
  1.4 MiB + 211.0 KiB =   1.6 MiB	gvfsd-metadata
  1.3 MiB + 365.0 KiB =   1.7 MiB	zeitgeist-daemon
  1.3 MiB + 416.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB	sshd
  1.5 MiB + 170.0 KiB =   1.7 MiB	accounts-daemon
  1.3 MiB + 385.0 KiB =   1.7 MiB	gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor
  1.3 MiB + 435.0 KiB =   1.7 MiB	upowerd
  1.2 MiB + 788.0 KiB =   1.9 MiB	sudo (2)
  1.8 MiB +  93.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	systemd-udevd
  1.9 MiB +  76.5 KiB =   2.0 MiB	rsyslogd
  1.7 MiB + 345.5 KiB =   2.1 MiB	udisksd
  1.5 MiB + 594.0 KiB =   2.1 MiB	gsd-printer
  1.8 MiB + 386.5 KiB =   2.2 MiB	gnome-keyring-daemon
  1.6 MiB + 584.0 KiB =   2.2 MiB	openvpn
  1.8 MiB + 566.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB	x-session-manag
  2.1 MiB + 378.0 KiB =   2.5 MiB	gdm-session-worker
  2.4 MiB + 165.5 KiB =   2.6 MiB	polkitd
  2.2 MiB + 565.0 KiB =   2.7 MiB	tracker-miner-user-guides
  2.3 MiB + 591.5 KiB =   2.8 MiB	wpa_supplicant
  1.9 MiB + 981.5 KiB =   2.9 MiB	mission-control-5
  2.0 MiB +   1.1 MiB =   3.1 MiB	(sd-pam) (2)
  2.7 MiB + 647.0 KiB =   3.3 MiB	tracker-miner-apps
  2.7 MiB + 652.0 KiB =   3.4 MiB	dbus-daemon (3)
  3.0 MiB + 353.0 KiB =   3.4 MiB	ModemManager
  2.8 MiB + 829.0 KiB =   3.6 MiB	zeitgeist-datahub
  2.1 MiB +   1.7 MiB =   3.7 MiB	systemd (3)
  3.5 MiB + 620.5 KiB =   4.1 MiB	packagekitd
  3.0 MiB +   1.3 MiB =   4.3 MiB	gnome-shell-calendar-server
  3.8 MiB + 896.0 KiB =   4.7 MiB	NetworkManager
  3.3 MiB +   1.8 MiB =   5.1 MiB	evolution-source-registry
  4.7 MiB + 530.5 KiB =   5.2 MiB	colord
  6.3 MiB +  61.0 KiB =   6.4 MiB	systemd-journald
  6.8 MiB + 603.5 KiB =   7.4 MiB	zeitgeist-fts
  4.8 MiB +   3.0 MiB =   7.7 MiB	pulseaudio (2)
  5.4 MiB +   2.3 MiB =   7.7 MiB	nm-applet
  8.4 MiB +  39.5 KiB =   8.4 MiB	dhclient
  7.3 MiB +   1.1 MiB =   8.5 MiB	tracker-miner-fs
  8.0 MiB +   1.2 MiB =   9.2 MiB	bash (4)
  7.1 MiB +   2.3 MiB =   9.4 MiB	gnome-terminal-server
  5.6 MiB +   4.5 MiB =  10.2 MiB	goa-daemon
 10.8 MiB + 549.0 KiB =  11.3 MiB	tracker-store
 10.5 MiB +   2.3 MiB =  12.8 MiB	applet.py
 10.8 MiB +   3.1 MiB =  13.8 MiB	gnome-settings-daemon
 13.9 MiB +   2.8 MiB =  16.8 MiB	Xorg
 14.1 MiB +   3.9 MiB =  18.1 MiB	nautilus
 11.3 MiB +   7.5 MiB =  18.8 MiB	evolution-alarm-notify
 28.4 MiB +   3.5 MiB =  31.9 MiB	transmission-gtk
 37.9 MiB +   3.2 MiB =  41.1 MiB	evolution-calendar-factory
102.1 MiB +   3.3 MiB = 105.4 MiB	tracker-extract
145.6 MiB +   7.2 MiB = 152.8 MiB	gnome-shell
349.7 MiB +   6.3 MiB = 356.0 MiB	firefox-esr
---------------------------------
                        965.5 MiB
=================================

=965.5 MiB

bester69 · #30 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-19 19:10

I opened Kodi,

Now it says, 2,0 GB

subir imagenes

i think, you can see 4Gb is required, otherwise is tring to survive

bester69 · #31 Post by **bester69** » 2016-12-19 19:23

wizard10000 wrote:
bester69 wrote:1,7Gb just with Internet browser opened
Internet browser with at least five tabs open, which is taking up almost half the RAM you're using.

Its just one tab, others are its own process

shutter is taking up a buncha RAM, why not kill it if it's not needed? IIRC shutter minimizes to the tray by default when you close it; if you're running KDE perhaps you'd get a little better performance out of spectacle? Not clear why you're running a GTK screenshot app when KDE has one that works perfectly well

I always pick ultimate tools, shutter its most complete in this task.

I don't use any KDE PIM apps so akonadi is disabled on my machine. I also don't use baloo, finding it a waste of disk space and processor cycles. On my own Plasma 5 installation (I run Sid) KDE uses about exactly 400mb of RAM at idle; the only thing in autostart is yakuake. I run a saved session with conky in it because Plasma 5.8 and later refuse to autostart conky so I use a workaround. I almost never see > 1GB of RAM used, but I close tabs I'm not using

I also disble baloo, but not kontact(akonadi), this is best feature among distros, Im using Guake insteed Yakuake, i dont remember why, i picked Guake.

I remember KDE uses around 650MB not 400M at idle withoout akonadi, with akonadi rises to 950 or so, that with Chrome (one tab plus extensions) its around 1,5 GB, if you open some more apps (libreoffice, kate, okular) and some more tabs, it rise > 2Gb easilly, so its neccesary at least 4GB, cos you cant install 3Gb.

Bulkley · #32 Post by **Bulkley** » 2016-12-19 19:33

Years ago I doubled my memory and noticed no change at all. Computer processing requires a combination of parts working together. Real improvement may require a completely different combination of parts. There is no silver bullet.

stevepusser · #33 Post by **stevepusser** » 2016-12-19 21:15

If the user wants to go to stupidly "heavy" sites such as the HuffPo, those will bog down most older machines due to the rendering required. They aren't interested in users with slower hardware. No matter how efficient the base system, the browser still is going have to use a lot of CPU cycles to render that page.

qyron · #34 Post by **qyron** » 2016-12-19 22:10

I won't put up my average system RAM consumption because I'm aware I've been fumbling with it and for sure there are a lot of processes running that should not be there, just putting weight on it.

What I usually try - and have been trying since I became more comfortable with tweaking my systems - is to find how low can I get on system resources and still have a working system for the average user.
But personally, as soon as I can get a machine for my single use, I'm going for the most streamlined system I can get built on openbox (I'm partial towards it) and try to get my power user badge.

Someone once nicknamed your system a frankendebian and I'm finding myself agreeing more and more with the title. With all the messing around you do to it, atop the odd user habits you have (I can't see the use for having more than two or three tabs in my web browser at the same time, and that is including Youtube, Codecademy and the eventual Wikipedia page or some forum or Facebook) it's easy to understand why you complain about having your system constantly bogging down.

I'm presently running on 4GB of RAM and after a quick check on it, I'm using about 1GB. Before I had the 4GB chip in the system, I was doing well with only half the memory and considering my system does not have a dedicated graphics card, I was doing very well. Except for the more resource hungry program (Minetest, Unknown Horizons, GIMP and Shotwell) my system was pretty snappy and functional. I added the extra memory for comfort, not extreme need; I could very well reconfigure the machine to a lighter DE (I'm using MATE), replace some programs with lighter alternatives (or even go without them) and put the system on a diet to squeeze more out of it. But then I would be trampling on the comfort of my family that also uses this machine.

The amount of memory in a system is directly tied to the needs of the users.

freek · #35 Post by **freek** » 2016-12-20 08:12

eh .. 2GB on laptop .. 6 days uptime (heavy user)
using 995MB (and 206MB in 4GB-swap) .. chromium (six tabs), firefox (three tabs), rtorrent, moc (streaming radio), mpv (movie-paused), htop, ranger and xterm open
.. don't think I need more ..

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