Why try to push bitcoin so hard

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Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-15 15:31

Rather then disrupt the topic more, with this promoting of the "bit coin " site,
here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=131162&p=633978#p633977
by akrueger » I have searched around, but debian.org donations has no Bitcoin address - here are some 2014 arguments why it could be a good idea, but they did not seem interested. Actually, linuxmint does give a Bitcoin address (and a mintcoin address) for donations - but I guess that is a completely different animal for you, right?


from:https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/bitcointalk.org#comment-49985709 Home of people trying their hardest to rip each other off with 'investment opportunities'; completely unregulated with no way to retrieve funds due to malfeasance:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/08/29/ ... zi-schem...

While many of these problems are endemic to flaws in the concept of bitcoin itself the majority of these ponzi's and pass through schemes are born, discussed, funded, and disappear on the bitcointalk forum. As such it serves as a major driver of fraudulent activity as it relates to bitcoins.


So any way, What appears to be a very genorous offer, was politely turned down,
so why continue with trying so hard to push this "bit coin" thing, it reminds me of these
e-mails I keep getting where they try to convince me that if I just send them my bank info, they are going to give me some $1,000,000,000 inhertance.

So what is this big deal about the "bit coin", if it is so wonderfull, why do you need to try so hard to promote it ?
Usually when things truely are good things, they promote their self,... no need to spam a forum , with the promotions.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-01-15 16:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-01-15 15:41

Steady on Garry, I think you're taking this all a bit too seriously.

The OP made a very kind offer and I felt that the money should probably go to Debian (I am unable to donate to the project myself), I certainly would not characterise the offers made as "pushing bitcoin so hard", I think that payment method is just considered to be the most convenient and secure for some users.

Obviously you are not one of those users and have a different opinion :)

On topic: I am pleased to see concerted efforts to overthrow the hegemony of the financial system as it currently stands.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby akrueger » 2017-01-15 15:43

:-)

Not "pushing" ... just using cryptocurrencies excessively, in the past years.

In this context the "why?" is easily answered: Pseudononymous donations. If I just want to give money, why reveal my full identity to the banking/paypal/other-centralized systems?
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby akrueger » 2017-01-15 15:52

Perhaps you want to be provoked a bit?

My hint for you: Get into it with 5 dollars, swap Bitcoin to other cryptocurrencies, try them out, play with them, get an informed opinion, swap back to bitcoin, swap back to 5 dollars, and then leave again - and never look back.
Your comparison to the Nigerian prince (not monkey) scams ... shows a prejudiced outside view IMHO.
Are you perhaps "pushing" the the broken fiat banking system? *lol*
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-15 16:16

Post by Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-01-15 09:41
Steady on Garry, I think you're taking this all a bit too seriously.

Not really to serious,...but genuinely wondering ,......So to start, I apologize,
not trying to offend any one either , but also I did not want to disrupt the topic,..so
I figured best to ask , in a off topic. thread,....

I have heard of bit coin, but never tried it,...probably never will,..but any way,
I was going to look at the site the OP posted a the link to,...and read the :
some 2014 arguments why it could be a good idea,

I mean that sounds like a lot of arguements,...
However, before I visit any site that I am not familiar with, I like to check and try
to find out just how secure or reliable the site is,..so I usually check at "mywot.com".
now, I do realize sometimes sites get submitted and bad reports that are not fair, but actually quite often they are pretty good,...
So anyway, that is what "opened a can of worms",... when I read the report I show in
my first post,.....
Recently I was also reading about how these people that are using "ransom ware"
to exort payments, and apparently they all use bit coin, or require the payment done vis bit coin,... so it kind of really does make me wonder just what kind of people are using this method,...
So any way, after what I read at mywot.com, I decided I would pass on following the link to the bit coin site, but was still curious about why anyone would recomend using it, I suppose it is great for people that have "kidnapped" a website, and wants to collect ransom, ,... but what good is it if you can not actually get real cash,... $$$, ?
The stores here where I live, do not accept "bit coins", in fact most people have never heard of it,..... So , how does one convert these "bit coins" to real cash ? Or is that even possible,... I mean at some point, it seems that somebody has to go to the bank, and withdraw the cash,..? You need to reveal you identity to do that, or do they use "mules" ?
My hint for you: Get into it with 5 dollars, swap Bitcoin to other cryptocurrencies, try them out, play with them,

That is fine for just playing games on the computer, but I need REAL $$ pesos or dollars , to buy food for my cats, and birds,... the stores here do not accept "cryptocurrencies" :D
Thanks for responding,.... I genuinely did just want to know more about this,...
Here is some pitchures of my birds : http://www.elchanate.org/el-chanate-foro/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-15 16:32

Your comparison to the Nigerian prince (not monkey) scams ... shows a prejudiced outside view IMHO.

:oops: Apology for poor choice of words, and edited the post,... I didn't
know those type of e-mails actually have a name "Nigerian prince scams" , but yes , that
is what they are,... any way apology to any one that may have read it before I edited,..
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby akrueger » 2017-01-15 19:34

GarryRicketson wrote:... also I did not want to disrupt the topic,..so I figured best to ask , in a off topic. thread,....

Very good decision, thanks for that.

First of all: Money has always also been used for the most horrible things imaginable. I agree. But isn't that more an argument against humans than against money itself? Personally I would really prefer to live in a (pre-Ferengi) StarTrek universe, where money is not anymore used or useful or needed. But my species is just not there yet.


GarryRicketson wrote:The stores here where I live, do not accept "bit coins".

Perhaps you'll find one in the wider vicinity, have a look:
https://coinmap.org
http://usebitcoins.info/index.php/bitco ... l-world#!/

If yes, then why not walk into their store/restaurant/gallery/community/..., and ask them about it? Perhaps a personal contact with a real human who is already using this new type of money ... will help too.

GarryRicketson wrote:I need REAL $$ pesos or dollars , to buy food for my cats, and birds

Of course, I am also using old money too, for buying stuff in the old world. For that, I send some of my bitcoins (which I have earned e.g. by coding stuff on the internet) to a "bitcoin exchange", and sell it there (for a pretty wildly fluctuating price). Then euros appear immediately(!) on my old bank account - so I can withdraw the euros, and spend them. Not complicated.

By now, there are also direct solutions which act as interfaces for buying in shops, e.g. a bitcoin credit card which directly withdraws from a bitcoin (online) wallet.

But the main advantage of BTC over other payment channels ... is not locally, but on the planet, on the internet. If for example, I decide to donate to anyone on this planet, and (s)he does a bit of learning, downloads a "wallet", and generates, and tells me her address ...
... then no one can stop us, no one can censor our transactions, no one really needs to know who we are, it costs only a small transaction fee, etc. - and important for me: In order to simply send money, we need no middleman anymore; ruthless banksters have finally got some real competition now - a P2P distributed "blockchain" software system, which is based on hashing, and encryption. Trust in ... mathematics.

GarryRicketson wrote:I genuinely did just want to know more about this,...

Go for it.
This is a good starting point: https://bitcoin.org/en/getting-started They also have introductory videos.

GarryRicketson wrote:Here is some pitchures of my birds : http://www.elchanate.org/el-chanate-foro/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14
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Cute.

Last year, I have talked to people who are creating a platform, which connects existing 32 million swipe card readers in shops worldwide with bitcoin traders, and them with my personal bitcoin wallet. Then it becomes even easier to use cryptocurrencies to buy pet food :-)
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-15 23:44

Ok, well thanks for explaining all of that,...
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-16 19:26

GarryRicketson wrote:but what good is it if you can not actually get real cash,... $$$, ?


One of the big pros of BTC is no chargebacks crap like on Paypal or in banks in some countries like UK.

But also one of the big cons is that BTC is unstable, i remember selling BTC @ 11$ per BTC, now its like 1,000 per BTC.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby vbrummond » 2017-01-17 01:24

It's making someone money, somewhere, just not me. No bitcoins, no thanks.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby alan stone » 2017-01-19 09:48

GarryRicketson wrote:I genuinely did just want to know more about this,...

FYI: here, here and here
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby millpond » 2017-02-09 20:16

First of all, BitCoin is the *ultimate* fiat currency. Backed by totally nothing.

The US $Dollar is at least backed by oil and nuclear weapons.
A gold standard would be better, but hard cold stell and oil and depleted uranium will just have to do.

BitCoin is also not truly anonymous. You have to interface with the BTC sites, and that can be ultimately traced. China is already in the process of cracking down on BTC, so its anonymity is in question.

Also there is the problem of funding your bitcoin accounts. The places where real money can be converted into BTC usually charge outrageous 'fees' which make a mockery of the exchange rates.

The ultimate question is who is really in control: Over tha last year or two, mining has become an extremely expensive process. In electricity. The machines that can maintain a reasonable return on the massive computational power ($$$) required to mine a BTC (which continues to grow with time by design) - are basically supercomputers and expensive FPGA devices. This effectively puts currency generation in the hands of corporations, the deep state (with NSA capable power), as well as more obvious government entities (like the FED). Anyone who thinks that BTC is a means to escape the clutches of the neoliberal globalisrts is severely deluded.

Plus there is the possible threat that a rogue state like North Korea might launch a single high altitude nuke blast to take out the electric grid along with *all* attached silicon based devices over tens of thousands of square miles. Buh-bye all BTC 'banks' in the affected regions.

What I find amazing is that the BTC folks will rightly scorn the fallacies inherent in the fiat monetary system, and come up with something infinitely more fragile.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby Fernando Negro » 2017-02-28 05:30

Bitcoin is almost certainly a product of the "powers-that-be" - who, among other things, want to ultimately surveil and control everything and everyone.

Being that the (obvious) reason why it has been so quickly adopted by the main corporations, and is so much promoted in the mainstream media, and through armies of (what are certainly) establishment "trolls" (who, yes, do exist: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/02/ ... gency.html).

The key term here, is "Cashless Society Control Grid".

And, notice how Western governments have already started restricting the use of physical cash (https://www.corbettreport.com/the-war-o ... try-guide/), and how the mainstream media have already started calling for its abolishment (http://www.prisonplanet.com/financial-t ... -cash.html).

Since that quoting is practised in these forums, and also to make my life much easier, I'll just quote, in here, what I've said in the recent past about this "Bitcoin" phenomenon:

(taken from here: https://www.corbettreport.com/whos-afra ... ment-28176)

“Bitcoin” is almost certainly a creation of the powers-that-be…

(And, also a too much sophisticated piece of networking software to have been done by a single person… Where did this “Sakamoto” character made his beta tests, then? His home network?)

The way that the Internet is immensely surveilled, nowadays (don’t look too much for information concerning the P*OMIS software – http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/p ... romis.html – or something bad – http://www.elmundo.es/encuentros/invita ... index.html – might happen to you), there’s no way that such a complex piece of software, that operates over the Internet, could have been developed without the powers-that-be already knowing, by now, who has created it.

So, this new piece of news [http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/australia-raids-bitcoin-1.3356725] will surely turn out to be just more “smoke”, to hide the true origins of this phenomenon.

Look at how quickly some of the big corporations (who constitute the real powers-that-be) adopted this currency (http://www.bitcoinvalues.net/who-accept ... coins.html). If this was really something contrary to the interests of the establishment, they would never adopt it – let alone so quickly, and in a way that promotes its growth.

And, all this paranoia about Bitcoin being used for crimes, is just (like you’ve said) that – paranoia. That is going to be used as a pretext to increase the surveillance and control of the Internet.

This “Bitcoin” phenomenon is the concretization of what Alex Jones and others have been warning, for almost two decades now… The so-called “Cashless Society Control Grid”.

And, explaining what I mean by this…

1) First of all, this so-called “cryptocurrency” is not cryptographic, at all. Since that, the NSA and the likes (who created its hash algorithm) can already decrypt it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZQXxUmROIU#t=1h8m25s).

2) Second, it’s the end of privacy in monetary transactions. Since that, every transaction is publicly recorded. And, all that it takes to identify which transaction corresponds to which deal, is to read the corresponding e-mail exchanges between the persons involved in such a deal. (Do you think that your, however possibly encrypted, e-mails are not being read also? Check again the same link I’ve posted above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZQXxUmROIU#t=1h8m25s)

3) Third, you are almost totally dependent on an Internet connection to be able to make such transactions. And, who controls the Internet? Big Brother. That is: the main/big corporations, that constitute the real powers-that-be, and their puppet-governments.

The future that the powers-that-be have planned, will be a Police State where *everything* – including the Internet – will be controlled. And, the future will also obviously be one where artificial intelligence will be advanced enough to be able to inspect every Internet traffic, and intercept/block whichever type it (specifically) wants. Here’s an example of how this is already being done, in certain places, since the last decade: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php ... #msg525995 [And, here's the description of the method used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection]

Do you know what “WWW” stands for, in intelligence circles? R: “World Wide Wiretap”.

So, if you’re an individual who’s fighting the powers-that-be, either (1) because of an oppressive government, that passes laws where it forbids certain people to use the Internet (what’s already being done in certain countries, is to require an ID to use this network), or (2) because the big Internet companies that dominate the market (and that you are forced to use) simply decide that they don’t want to let you use their services anymore, you are always dependent on the “good will” of other entities to be able to make monetary transactions.

And all this, not counting with all the “dirty tricks” that can be used against you – like simply interfering with your monetary transactions, when they’re passing through the Big Brother network, and then have your Internet company respond to you that it must have been some “glitch”, or that they simply don’t know where your money went. (Here’s an example, if you want, of one of the big Internet companies making comments of mine disappear, simply because they want to: http://blackfernando.blogspot.pt/2013/0 ... -meus.html)

Also, in the era of spyware and software insecurity, in a lot of proprietary computer operating systems and programs, that most people use (and, where we even have to be careful with the hardware that we use – https://trisquel.info/en/forum/secret-3 ... -pc-access), to have a “digital wallet”, on a computer hard drive, is the most ridiculously and laughably insecure manner of storing your money that I have ever heard of! (And, all that it takes to make you loose all your savings, is to simply demagnetize your hard drive – which can be done from a distance.)

Please, (seriously) inform yourselves about Internet and computer security, in order to realize what (/the trap that) you’re really getting yourselves into.


And, I'll leave here two more quotes, from following comments that I made in the same thread:


In order to create and conceive something like “Bitcoin”, there has to be a deep knowledge of computer networking software, and also of Economics – and, I immensely doubt that there’s a single person on this planet that could have both.

(When was the last time that you’ve met a computer “geek” that also had a degree in Economics?)

Therefore, I would much more easily believe this to be the work of a large group of highly intelligent and knowledgeable people, from different areas.
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby Fernando Negro » 2017-02-28 09:09

Addendum

"Bill Gates Pushes Cashless Society":

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bill-gates- ... ciety.html
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Re: Why try to push bitcoin so hard

Postby pawRoot » 2017-02-28 09:27

I suggest you take off your foil hat :lol: :lol:

Those companies you listed haven't been accepting BTC for years, they started doing so when they saw potential in it, and when it got enough media coverage etc.

More payment methods = more customers, simple as that, no need for conspiracy theories :shock:

BTC would be imo best internet payment system if the currency was actually stable, but since it's not we have to deal with idiotic payment systems like PayPal (bunch of thieves which got monopol).
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