Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

If it doesn't relate to Debian, but you still want to share it, please do it here

Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-17 14:53

Edited and moved from: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=131209
I was going to just delete my post, but since there all ready was a reply, I can't do that,
So I moved both to Off topic,...


by pawRoot » I'm not whining, but it's annoying when someone send you to Google when you spend 2 hours searching how to fix your problem.
Linux has literally worst community, i haven't seen this crap happening on any other forum.

Well, that is cute, if you really don't like the forum, and the other forums are better,
What are you doing here ?
But don't worry, stick around, there other Window users here, making every effort
possible to convert the forum into a general forum, where they can share their efforts
in making Debian and Linux, more like Windows, and how to mamage thier Windows
malware, from a Debian, or Linux sub partition,....

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=131217&p=634201#p634182

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-16 12:09
You guys are big Windows haters around here i can see

I suppose what we need is a sub forum, for the Windows users,.. and all that,...
So they will be happy here, and not be saying stuff like this :
Linux has literally worst community,

So is that what you guys are doing here, trying to make the "linux community", more like your beloved Windows community,...? sounds like it.
I don't know about others, on this forum,...it used to be a place intended for
Debian Users, where the people useing Debian, how ever it is becoming more
and more like a general OS, help me make my Windows run on Debian, or linux, and help me make my Linux more like Windows,.. Windows, windows windows,... I
have absoultely no interest in Windows,...and I suppose that is why I should just
shutup, and find a forum more dedicated to just Debian, or even better, dedicated
to Debian Old stable,... besides that, now Linux has accepted MS, as a major contributar,....... "the linux community" , as we knew it, no longer exists.
Microsoft Joins Linux Foundation as Platinum Member
So any way, don't worry, you windows lovers are succeeding, eventually you will
run off all the "old school" linux users, and have your "DebiWindows", monster,... and it will be just like the MS windows malware.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-01-17 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mount HDD without password

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-17 15:08

I think you are being a bit paranoid.
The great thing about Linux in general is the ability to customize it and make it look etc. as you want
So if someone wants OS X or Windows style font rendering, or the windows to look similiar, then why not?

If it's possible to do then where is problem? Why making stupid posts like go and install Windows?
I have used OS X and Windows for many years, and after switching to Debian the fonts/fonts rendering was unacceptable for me, but i found a way how to make them look like on OS X, it works in the end and im happy with the result, so where is your problem?

Are you one of these people that want Linux to look like in 90s?
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-01-17 15:41

What the OS looks like is not important to me,
how the OS runs, is what counts,...

From:http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=131173#p633825
Interesting, the same changes that are making this guy feel "more comfortable"
with linux, are the changes that made me decide to keep using Debian 7 as long
as I can keep it secure, and start learning about OpenBsd, and other BSD's,
or Minix, for my future OS's,....

Again, I have no interest in those other Os's,.....I have never used them, and never will
Basicly I am losing interest in Linux now as well, it is headed in a different direction, then what suits me, ... But there is no point in trying to explain, a few , maybe understand,
the rest see things from a MS windows user view point,...and there is no point in tryying
to explain, it is a waste of time,..
As far as the forum goes,... well, I can and will just keep any eye out for spam, and reports, there is no point in tryying to explain anything technical or suggest searches to people that have more interest in making their Linux system more like windows.
That is all, I have to say on this, and I have better things to do any way.
If others have comments, etc,... well have fun.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby qyron » 2017-01-17 21:23

tl;dr
stupidity doesn't earn respect; bigotry doesn't earn it either

First order of work - Linux is not Windows.
Its built around a different paradigm, with different goals and a different agenda. It can and will do pretty much anything Windows does, if correctly set up, but that does not mean Windows is better than Linux; it's actually the other way around.

Linux is built and engineered towards security. That is why each and every user of a given system has an allotted reserved area to play around. And that is also why there is a reserved, super-authoritative, admin (root) account. If only one person can freely tinker and poke around in the system core, the risk it can be fudged is reduced.
I think you'll recognize this concept on the latest Windows versions. Somehow, someone, noticed it should be enforced (some notion of) a security policy over that OS. Just to be safe... ish.

Second order of work - Watch your mouth.
This is a community where all members share the knowledge they have freely for the communal sake, on their free time. This isn't a paid support team to take with every little complaint a novice user has. And not even the Windows user forums are; I've read replies over there that made me cringe.

Over here, and if you could be so kind and read the general guidelines for the forum, you are:
a) encouraged to search the web for a solution
b) encouraged to search the forums for a similar problem and proposed solution
c) if the above do not completely clear your doubts then you are expected to:
c1) give has much detail to what is your problem/doubt
c2) explain what have you already tried and/or explored and to which degree of success or total lack of

To this, like with any other degree of human interaction, politeness and respect are expected to be used. You know, common courtesy?

Third order of work - Work on it. Both.
Before you start slanting and bad mouthing all around, go back and read your own words. Consider how you would reply to yourself. You if find any reason to reply to yourself with another question or make some acidic remark, you haven't explained yourself well enough. We are not in your head. We can't guess your motivations to need some specific configuration done to your system.



If you are willing to learn a bit about Linux and compare it with Windows, I'll risk you'll be more than willing to shed your glass panes and join the dark side. We are about freedom over here but it comes at a cost like anything worthy.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-18 18:36

I will say it last time because im getting tired, if someone actually tries to help you, i really appreciate it.
But if someone comes and says "go and install Windows" because you want for example fonts like on Windows, how can anyone be polite and not get angry?
I am not trying to make my Debian works like Windows, if i wanted that i would just install it.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby dcihon » 2017-01-18 19:55

My 2 cents because I like these kind of passionate discussions.
Remember you are using an OS that hasn't cost you a penny unless you contribute.
People here are not getting paid to help you.
Be a little patient if you don't get the answer you are looking for right away.
This is all volunteer work being done here.
My 2 cents.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby edbarx » 2017-01-19 07:47

But if someone comes and says "go and install Windows" because you want for example fonts like on Windows, how can anyone be polite and not get angry?

I too am fussy about font rendering, but I do not want them to be similar to MS Windows' fonts. I find the latter quite tiring on my eyes. Linux has better fonts that are far more comfortable to read. There are some basic concepts about fonts that can make a user's Linux experience a blessing.

Here they are. Do some more reading about them. You do not need to become a font expert to start enjoying the richess of font redering Linux offers. :)

  1. Anti-Aliasing
  2. Hinting and Sub-Pixel Order
  3. DPI setting (Dots Per Inch)
  4. As root, you can use:
    Code: Select all
    dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config
Once you get the real superior feel of Linux's font rendering tweakability, you will change your opinion about Windows' font rendering.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-19 15:57

What i use personally for fonts is infinality with OS X setting, and Overpass fonts, looks sweet.
I don't like the Windows fonts aswell.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby phenest » 2017-01-19 21:57

GarryRicketson wrote:
by pawRoot » I'm not whining, but it's annoying when someone send you to Google when you spend 2 hours searching how to fix your problem.
Linux has literally worst community, i haven't seen this crap happening on any other forum.

This comment from pawRoot has 2 parts, but it amazes me how most replies have focused on the 2nd part and got upset. The 1st part has a good point: if a member here asks for help and the only replies offered are "Google is your friend", one could easily assume all members of this forum are equally as unhelpful. pawRoot has expressed their feelings due to the lack of help they've received, and those here have gotten upset because pawRoot is upset. If the only way to get attention is to express how pissed off you are, then that's what the new member will do. Hopefully someone will reply with something helpful to sooth the situation rather than add fuel to the fire.
If someone has a question, then give an answer. If you don't know the answer, then don't reply. This doesn't mean if you reply you have to do all the work for the OP, but telling someone to do some research first without telling them what to research is bound to get new-comers upset. If the OP has spent hours and hours of searching with no results, I don't see why they have to read more pages of stuff on forum etiquette before they're allowed to make a post here. A little more compassion and patience towards new-comers would go a long way to encourage them to learn about Linux and it's philosophy.
After all, if a Windows user comes here wanting to understand about Linux, then they're not used to researching or reading, and this something that takes time for an ex-Windows user to get used to. A few pointers (no matter how repetitive it may get) in the right direction will help an ex-Windows user appreciate how joyful using and learning about Linux can really be.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby MALsPa » 2017-01-19 23:00

Trying to point someone in the right direction is one thing, but there's no need to ridicule someone who posts a question here when you feel that they haven't done enough research before posting. Guess I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby pawRoot » 2017-01-19 23:13

@phenest

Thanks, finally someone with common sense.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby dasein » 2017-01-20 01:51

In no particular order...

1) The question that sparked this thread was not hard to search for. The OP was simply too lazy to do the search himself.

A Google search using swipe and right-click on the thread title returns over a half million hits. Elapsed time: 16 seconds.

At least two very strong candidate answers can be found by reading less than half of the entries on the very first page of search results. Assuming average reading speed, total time: less than 5 minutes.

So when this OP falsely claims that he spent "two hours" at Google, he's actually betraying the fact that he didn't spend so much as a moment there. (Either that, or he never actually learned to tell time.)

2) Tolerance for poster laziness varies by contributor. Some folks, like HoaS, seem content to do others' searching for them. And if they are comfortable doing so, then that's their choice. Others (including me) think that time spent spoonfeeding folks too lazy to devote 5 minutes to solving their own problem is time poorly spent, and that the end result (rewarding laziness) is ultimately counterproductive.

What's even more counterproductive, from an information ecology point of view, is silence. Every time an obviously common question goes unanswered, it makes it more difficult to search successfully for the answer.

That said, "I don't know, why don't you try some searches" is also counterproductive. There's nothing wrong with offering an educated guess if that's all one has, and offering nonobvious query terms can be a huge help in answering some particularly obscure questions. But a mere confession of ignorance is unsatisfactory as a default answer to most every question.

3) The initial reference to "make it work like Windows" was the OP's and no one else's. Indiscriminate mounting of random devices by unprivileged users is the security model of Windows XP, and there's no point in pretending otherwise. The exhortation to use Windows if one likes Windows seems perfectly appropriate.

Debian isn't about OoB aesthetics or ease-of-use, and anyone running it, or contemplating running it, needs to be aware of that fact. Linux demands engagement from its users; Debian moreso than most other distros. Folks unable or unwilling to engage on that level are almost certainly better served running something else. That's why the vast majority of Debian users started out with another distro.

4) This OP is a chronic whiner. Within slightly more than 24 hours of joining FDN, he was insulting individual contributors and the FDN (actually Linux) community at large, simply because he wasn't getting spoonfed answers exactly on his terms. Rewarding temper tantrums merely encourages temper tantrums.

5) As I've suggested before, anyone who believes that the optimal role of forum contributors is to do basic searches for folks too lazy to do them themselves, and to spoonfeed answers that have a half-million existing Google hits, needs to show up, every day, and "be the change they want to see." Editorial commentary from the sidelines doesn't count.

And on that cheery note, I'm gonna take me a vacation of indeterminate duration.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby Thorny » 2017-01-20 11:14

dasein wrote: Rewarding temper tantrums merely encourages temper tantrums.

Most successful parents know this, and it applies in the adult world too.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby Bulkley » 2017-01-20 17:44

We should all endeavour to be polite and to write clearly. It is the Internet and very easy to be misunderstood.

Having said that I do lose it occasionally when we have so many open threads on a subject and someone jumps in and starts another. The Debian approach to WiFi is a perpetual source of new threads and it is obvious that new posters often think they need to be spoon fed. Then there are the students who want us to do their homework for them, and those who want us to help them fix a different OS, those who try to run franken-Debian. It is almost by definition that anyone asking how to configure Kali shouldn't be using it. When someone posts their problems with Debian Testing or Sid in Beginners Questions I generally don't reply; if they are beginners what are they doing with Testing or Sid?

So, yes, refer posters to the documentation or to a more appropriate forum but be polite about it.
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Postby HuangLao » 2017-01-20 17:52

directing people to first search for a solution is not disrespectful, in fact it is the basis of respect ie: wanting to teach the person to fish rather then hand a fish to them. One could easily say that asking other people to do work for you ie: posting questions in a forum that as dasein stated could easily be solved with a quick search on the net, is disrespectful. This becomes evident when the tone of replies from said OP become a bit nasty. We come across this again and again in the forums. Debian has a wiki, Debian forums has a great search feature, DuckDuckGo is your friend heck you can even site:forums.debian.net "enter search terms" and have at it all day.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Aforums ... 2b_&ia=web

here is another one: :mrgreen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM
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