Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigration

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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby oswaldkelso » 2017-01-31 21:42

HuangLao wrote:This statement from Linux Foundation is a bit hypocritical and inappropriate.
1) stick to what you know, build the best darn kernel in the world
2) Pres. Clinton (state of the union address) spoke of the dangers of illegal immigration and the need to protect the countries borders (youtube Bill Clinton state of the union address + illegal immigration)
3) Pres. Obama listed these same seven countries and placed them on a list of temporarily banning immigration (again duckduckgo it)
4) nothing about this executive order will affect the development of the Linux Kernel or the development of Linux as it occurs via cyberspace, iirc, git, etc...
5) You can't have it both ways, if you choose to remain quiet when one party is in office (doing the same or similar things) then you lose your chance to object when the other party does the same or similar thing. Protest what is wrong, not because a different group is doing it.
6) Nothing from this ruling would have prevented Linus from emigrating to USA


PS: The Statue of Liberty had nothing to do with Immigration, it was a dedication from France honoring the Founding of the USA, the poem engraved at the base of the Statue was added in 1903 as a way to raise money. The tablet she is holding is engraved with the founding date ("JULY IV MDCCLXXVI" – July 4, 1776).


re:

1) Irelivent. Just like all major tech companys they need to move their experts around the free world. Many of them complained even Apple. As I understand it Redhat by far the largest contribuor to the Linux Kernel has bases though out the US.
2) You mention illegal immigration. I don't think anyone agrees with that, it's illegal. or are you saying Mrs Clinton was going to do the same thing as Trump? The reason the Advocate General said what Trump was doing maybe illegal was because we were talking about people with legal rights to enter and refugees.
3) I did DDG it. Major differences. Read about them here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... a-in-2011/?
4) see 1)
5) Not sure what your saying but it sounds like your talking about 3)
6) Irelevent.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty

In 1956, an Act of Congress officially renamed Bedloe's Island as Liberty Island, a change advocated by Bartholdi generations earlier. The act also mentioned the efforts to found an American Museum of Immigration on the island, which backers took as federal approval of the project, though the government was slow to grant funds for it.[120] Nearby Ellis Island was made part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument by proclamation of President Lyndon Johnson in 1965.[106] In 1972, the immigration museum, in the statue's base, was finally opened in a ceremony led by President Richard Nixon. The museum's backers never provided it with an endowment to secure its future and it closed in 1991 after the opening of an immigration museum on Ellis Island.[93]
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby golinux » 2017-01-31 21:50

Segfault wrote:Show me where you condemned similar Obama order and I will not call you hypocrite.

Saying stupid things is not the same as DOING stupid things. Politicians do a lot of both to whip up their constituency. I washed my hands of the whole contaminated mess a long time ago. It will never be fixed in the fairytale voting booth. Will have to play out until we crawl out of the rubble collectively wondering where things went wrong . . .
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby HuangLao » 2017-02-01 00:51

oswaldkelso wrote:
re:

1) Irelivent. Just like all major tech companys they need to move their experts around the free world. Many of them complained even Apple. As I understand it Redhat by far the largest contribuor to the Linux Kernel has bases though out the US.
2) You mention illegal immigration. I don't think anyone agrees with that, it's illegal. or are you saying Mrs Clinton was going to do the same thing as Trump? The reason the Advocate General said what Trump was doing maybe illegal was because we were talking about people with legal rights to enter and refugees.
3) I did DDG it. Major differences. Read about them here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... a-in-2011/?
4) see 1)
5) Not sure what your saying but it sounds like your talking about 3)
6) Irelevent.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty

In 1956, an Act of Congress officially renamed Bedloe's Island as Liberty Island, a change advocated by Bartholdi generations earlier. The act also mentioned the efforts to found an American Museum of Immigration on the island, which backers took as federal approval of the project, though the government was slow to grant funds for it.[120] Nearby Ellis Island was made part of the Statue of Liberty National Monument by proclamation of President Lyndon Johnson in 1965.[106] In 1972, the immigration museum, in the statue's base, was finally opened in a ceremony led by President Richard Nixon. The museum's backers never provided it with an endowment to secure its future and it closed in 1991 after the opening of an immigration museum on Ellis Island.[93]


Oh now, Wikipedia the bastion of truth, try this:
"Around 1865, as the American Civil War drew to a close, the French historian Edouard de Laboulaye proposed that France create a statue to give to the United States in celebration of that nation’s success in building a viable democracy. The sculptor Frederic Auguste Bartholdi, known for large scale sculptures, earned the commission; the goal was to design the sculpture in time for the centennial of the Declaration of Independence in 1876. The project would be a joint effort between the two countries–the French people were responsible for the statue and its assembly, while the Americans would build the pedestal on which it would stand–and a symbol of the friendship between their peoples."

RE: http://www.history.com/topics/statue-of-liberty

Again it had nothing to do with Immigration!
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby debiman » 2017-02-01 07:01

HuangLao wrote:didnt say anything is wrong with it, its just hypocrisy.

ok now i beg to differ between my own stance and that of "Jim Zemlin, Executive Director, The Linux Foundation".

because i can only speak for myself:

it's not hypocrisy to speak up against something evil happening, only because one hasn't spoken up against ALL evil happening EVER.

anyhow i was just voicing my opinion about something that seems to be a fact by now (trump being unfit to run the usa), so it's not like i'm really actively protesting against trump.
it's more like i see him stumbling along the edge of the cliff, and i'm happy to be that butterfly on the other side of the world that helps to push him over. yeah, that's mean. sorry, donald.
that's what i am. infinitesimally small on my own.

and i'll just say it again: US American "democracy" really much more resembles a boxing match with a jeering audience and bloody noses. whenever somebody voices an opinion one way, it's pressed into this black+white scheme - "you're against trump? well obama wasn't much better!" - and after the next election it will be "you're against XYZ? well trump wasn't much better!" - sorry, i'm just not playing that game. i'm not "taking sides", i'm voicing an opinion.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby acewiza » 2017-02-01 14:52

debiman wrote:i think it's exactly the right kind of statement in view of what's happening in the us of a right now.

The only thing happening in the U.S. right now in this context is the the enforcement of laws already on the books - something milk toast liberals and sypathetic politicians from all walks of life have been unable and/or unwilling to do for political reasons for decades.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby mor » 2017-02-01 16:24

A bit of hypocrisy is always there in anything we do. Should we not avoid blood diamonds just because we bought Nike shoes?
Should we not condemn discrimination against women just because we didn't do anything to protest racial inequities?

We all pick and choose our battles, we all have different sensibilities and priorities when it comes to becoming outraged, and there's a more or less common threshold for stuff that makes us all gather in the streets and squares.

The resonance of an event or situation also has a great impact on how much we feel about it, still, there is a shitload of stuff we don't even know that should be mentioned, that we should go in the streets for and we don't.
Should we not protest something because of what we aren't protesting?

Trump's election is indeed a sensational event, one that has repercussions all over the world, like every US presidency, and one that in this case and many more to come has an impact over some very important freedoms and potential discrimination against specific segments of the population.

Calling this hypocrisy is unfair because true hypocrisy, that of people who actively do bad deeds and then become outraged by other matters, well, how do we call that?

One legacy that I hope Trump's presidency will leave us with, is the importance to not let ourselves become so disengaged with each other that we are rendered almost "physically" incapable to work together.
I for one have learned that no matter how scared I am of certain things happening, it was probably necessary to go through it, if anything to let it out of our system.

Be understanding, both sides.

:)
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby Segfault » 2017-02-09 02:59

What's the problem here, all top democrats agree with ban.

If it weren't for double standards they'd have no standards at all ...
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby alan stone » 2017-02-09 05:48

Alzheimer epidemic and/or this and/or ROFL :?:

EDIT: added ROFL option. :mrgreen:

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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-02-09 06:52

I think we should build a wall between Debian and Ubuntu

And we will make Ubuntu pay. Yes we will.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby alan stone » 2017-02-09 15:26

How about building sarcophagi around government and MSM buildings? :lol:
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby oswaldkelso » 2017-02-09 16:36

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I think we should build a wall between Debian and Ubuntu

And we will make Ubuntu pay. Yes we will.

:mrgreen:



After reading "The art of the deal" and reading between the lines, The only certainty is Debian users will pay for the wall up front. It Ubuntu fails to pay up you can shout at the naughty Ubuntu users. The real question is which fat cats will get the contracts to build this wall. Who are their share holders, or maybe family members... follow the money.. Another thing is building the wall will be creating the infrastructure for Ubuntu users in places that didn't exist before. But what the heck "Let's make Debian Great again"


:wink:

Edit: I see the cost for the wall has gone up to $22bn (from $12bn) and some estimating a further $25bn
Last edited by oswaldkelso on 2017-02-10 19:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby millpond » 2017-02-10 03:42

The election of Trumpo the Squirrel Headed Clown was the most propitious Black Swan moment in recent history.

It avoided the alternative: Global Thermonuclear War.
Hillary promised a No Fly Zone in Syria - utterly againsst International Law (as is our presence there) and one in which Putin would have been obligated (and rightly so) to take down our aircraft, and sink our carriers.

We have a Teabagger-In-Chief, who thankfully is not sadistic, nor corruptible. He has too much money (from his own past corruption) to be corruptable. And now he is faced with the dreadful task of being the Captain of the USS Titanic in a financial shark infested ocean.

The thing to understand is that the neoliberal globalist corporations and their minions are pushing for the destruction of the Nation-State, embodied in the TTP and TTPIP treaties (the former at least being scuttled by Trumpo, but no word on the latter, or even the more important TISA). The next thing on their kill list is actually the Dollar, scheduled to be replaced by the IMF's SDR currency. Its already in motion with the current efforts to outlaw cash, initiated most egregiously in India.Eliminate the concept of specie, and turn all economic control over to financial entities who act together to supervise the New World Order*. The destruction of nations in this scenario is simply an oppurtunity for the korporate *Reapers* to seize wealth as disruption destroys value, and permits exploitation. Look at the Ukraine. And even Iraq, where the trouble there was caused by Obombo seeking revenge for getting tossed out.

The efforts to restrict immigration are perhaps too little, too late. It is an extreme measure, but one that is actually reasonable when viewed in the context of a nation trying to reindustrialise as the only method to avoid an Empire facing oblivion. An Empire backed by artillery rather than moral force, simply cannot exist for long as a service economy. And the people at the top know this. But only see this as an oppurtunity to short the dollar.

We are reliving the financial situation very similar to the early 1930's, albeit in a worse situation as the FIRE sector has become the main force of our GDP and 'wealth'. It is sad to say that a revival of Nationalism is probably our only hope even if it breeds dreaded obvious neo-fascism. The fascism of globalist corporatism is infinitely worse, just infinitely less visible as we are imersed in its matrix of propaganda as it gets to control the media.

In short, we are circling the wagons, getting ready for Geronimo, but this time he's wearing a burkha.

No sense attacking the messenger here. I am a Bolshevik. The teabaggers to me are execrable.
But that simple fact does not make them wrong.
At least at this point in our history.

*This is not the NWO of the John Bircher nutters (UN fantasies), but rather the one specifially spelled out by David Rockefeller and others ond often written about in Think Tank Journals such as Foreign Relations, and even by Trilaeral Commission spooks like Ziggy Brzinsky. They are rather egregious about it, figuring that the unwashed deplorables simply cannot read beyond a 6th grade level. Of course they are generally correct.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby acewiza » 2017-02-10 15:26

millpond wrote:We have a Teabagger-In-Chief, who thankfully is not sadistic, nor corruptible. He has too much money (from his own past corruption) to be corruptable. And now he is faced with the dreadful task of being the Captain of the USS Titanic in a financial shark infested ocean.

Well said - accurate, complete and concise.
I have always referred to the FIRE sector as the "money-for-nothing" people. Their only tangible product and/or service is creating reams and bytes of information that nobody except themselves and lawyers can understand. It is in fact a brilliant "job-security-through-obscurity" strategy.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby HuangLao » 2017-02-10 19:33

just an FYI, because the word Fascism keeps coming up, especially with regards to the Nazis and Hitler. The Nazis were a National Socialist Party, ie: they are Socialists. Also, Socialism, Communism, Fascism are the same thing....different clothes on the same ideology. Communism and Fascism are both fast routes to Socialism. End history lesson here.
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Re: Linux Foundation Exec. Director's Statement on Immigrati

Postby RU55EL » 2017-02-10 19:46

HuangLao wrote:just an FYI, because the word Fascism keeps coming up, especially with regards to the Nazis and Hitler. The Nazis were a National Socialist Party, ie: they are Socialists. Also, Socialism, Communism, Fascism are the same thing....different clothes on the same ideology. Communism and Fascism are both fast routes to Socialism. End history lesson here.


This is the Debian forum!

I think you are getting a little too far off topic!
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