Why I do not use Gnome anymore

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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-18 18:29

this thread has gone so off topic that I'll just continue.

I have used openbox,dwm and i3 and I think that for me the best possible desktop setup would be one where:

1) nothing is on the screen all the time, things are on screen only when I invoke them or they are in a concky script. I don't want a panel that displays a clock all the time, when I need it not even close to all the time. I don't want to minimize any window ever, I want to either use more work spaces or some tiling scheme when I need more real estate, not to minimize into a panel. Also panels that autohide just don't look nice and work well (you accidentally make it appear all the time or something else)

2) applications are launced from a search box by typing a part of that name and not selecting it from a menu, since I will never remember under what subclassing it is in the menu and I rarely remember the names of applications exactly or at all.

3) you need as little mouseing around as possible, no little click on this to make larger or close or anything. I think i3 is nice but not perfect. I don't even mind having to compile in order to make changes as I don't usually change the look of the desktop ever.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby phenest » 2017-04-18 19:18

pylkko wrote:this thread has gone so off topic that I'll just continue.

I think I'm going to start a new topic:
"Why I don't stay on topic anymore"
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-18 19:49

That should be a interesting topic, I look forward to this.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby No_windows » 2017-04-19 12:25

pylkko wrote:2) applications are launced from a search box by typing a part of that name and not selecting it from a menu, since I will never remember under what subclassing it is in the menu and I rarely remember the names of applications exactly or at all.


Re-arrange your categories/subclasses and possibly rename them? I understand your frustration with that, as I experience that with KDE and the Whisper-Menu is Xfce. I'm not using KDE and typically use the the Xfce menu re-arranged to my liking instead of the Whisper version that many people seem to like. To me, a search box would be irritating..... I don't want to type for such a basic/simple operation, I want to use the mouse.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-19 20:40

No_windows wrote:
Re-arrange your categories/subclasses and possibly rename them? I understand your frustration with that, as I experience that with KDE and the Whisper-Menu is Xfce. I'm not using KDE and typically use the the Xfce menu re-arranged to my liking instead of the Whisper version that many people seem to like. To me, a search box would be irritating..... I don't want to type for such a basic/simple operation, I want to use the mouse.

How would that help? Let me make this concrete. Pretend that I want to edit a video and have not done it in a year. So the program is called openshot, but I don't remember that I just remember that it is "shot something","shotwell" or whatever. In GNOME I type "sho", it suggests openshot and I start it. In what you suggest, I have to have a panel blocking a part of my screen all the time so that I can have a menu that I click, after which I have to ponder in which category it could be, then guess, click again, open a list of stuff, scan the list with my eyes, possible miss it and have to scan again...

Another place where this kind of stuff is nice is when you read and write a lot. So you downlod thousands of articles in a year and you save them god knows where. Later when you are writing, you can search in the shell with keywords that find articles that you have read that are relevant to the issue you are writing about now. Or you can save mini snippets of text files (like good parts/citations of texts that you read) and find them later straight from the shell with search terms. So let's say you are interested in collecting knowledge about some topic in Russian politics. Everytime you read an interesting part you copy paste it in a file. So later you can start writing an article about the topic by searching all the snippets that you have for that key term. Of course you could save the snippets by topic in folders, but that is kind of dumb, since obviously they can be related to many topics, or at times you don't know what the topic is. Also, I know that there are programs like recoil that can do this independent of Gnome Shell. Actually such search and indexing (tracker in gnome) should be more intelligent and search for synonyms and expressions also. That is the only place where MacOS wins over Debian, I'd say.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby No_windows » 2017-04-20 05:27

pylkko wrote:How would that help? Let me make this concrete. Pretend that I want to edit a video and have not done it in a year. So the program is called openshot, but I don't remember that I just remember that it is "shot something","shotwell" or whatever. In GNOME I type "sho", it suggests openshot and I start it. In what you suggest, I have to have a panel blocking a part of my screen all the time so that I can have a menu that I click, after which I have to ponder in which category it could be, then guess, click again, open a list of stuff, scan the list with my eyes, possible miss it and have to scan again...


Because you place the program/shortcut in some logical category, like "Video Editors".....and I don't know what you're talking about having a panel blocking part of your screen. If you don't want a panel, then don't use one, or have it autohide.......but where would you put the search box that you want?

If you're missing things, and having to rescan, you probably have too many entries in each sub-menu because you haven't configured it to suit you. MX16 is like that for me, but it's just a VM and not my main OS, and I haven't done much at all to it. In my Debian Jessie install, I have the Xfce menu cut down. Duplicates are removed, extras that I won't use are not installed, and no sub-catagory is longer than 11 entries, not the eleventy billion that I have in MX-16.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby deborah-and-ian » 2017-04-20 06:15

My 2 cents:

-I like the HIG stuff they're pulling, specifically for programmes where I just need a few features
(example: I rather use gthumb than something like digikam)
-For programes where a lot of productivity is needed, I couldn't bear the client side decorated light design
(example: I really hope Gimp or Inkscape won't go this route)
-I like Gnome Shell, but I don't like the underlying technologies like Zeitgeist or Tracker which make my laptop crash or hog a lot of memory (and with 8 GB RAM I shouldn't worry about memory, right?)
-For a lot of programmes that converted to client-side decorations, you can use the Mate Desktop fork
(example: I use Atril instead of Evince, and the version in Jessie is decent. It lets me read PDFs and print them. For annotations I use Xournal)
-Those who miss the old times, really should stick to Mate, as it's constantly developed and even has progressed to using GTK3. This means that Wayland support is coming soon.

Another note on Wayland:
Some of you here have noted that Gnome 3 has full Wayland support. Well, it does, but let's be honest: how much time do normal users spend within Gnome applications? In my case, whenever I use Gnome 3, most of my time is spent in applications that still use older technologies -- Gimp, Inkscape, LibreOffice, the video games that still run on Xorg -- the gain from running a Wayland desktop is therefore doubtful. Sure, Wayland has good security features, but in Stretch we will also have Xorg running without root privileges. The other advantages for normal users such as better vsync are a moot point if most of the time I'm running stuff in XWayland. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of Wayland and Xorg is just an ancient hog that tortures developers when it comes to implementing new features, but it's not even really ready in distros with much newer software stacks. Apart from that, Gnome 3 and partially KDE are the only ways to use it properly now. Well, there's Enlightenment, but I wouldn't consider this a great window manager for anyone. This means, there aren't a lot of things present that the regular Debian user wants: no advanced window managers yet (well, none that are stable at least), no classic desktops such as Xfce or Mate. I think Wayland will be more of a reality in Debian 10.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-20 13:49

While I see what you are saying about limited native Wayland support, I believe that LibreOffice has been running natively on Wayland for a long time already.

EDIT: I just checked, it starts on native Wayland backend.
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