Why I do not use Gnome anymore

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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby No_windows » 2017-03-19 21:25

dust hill resident wrote:....I was still using some Gnome programs, like the PDF reader. I had to switch to Okular once I updated to jessie and found that they'd finally ruined that too with the CSD rubbish.


What's wrong with Evince? Once I found it, I didn't miss Okular anymore. I started with Kubuntu, so KDE was my first DE.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby dust hill resident » 2017-03-19 21:30

No_windows wrote:
dust hill resident wrote:....I was still using some Gnome programs, like the PDF reader. I had to switch to Okular once I updated to jessie and found that they'd finally ruined that too with the CSD rubbish.


What's wrong with Evince? Once I found it, I didn't miss Okular anymore. I started with Kubuntu, so KDE was my first DE.


The client side decorations. All the Gnome apps have been redesigned to use them, and I think they're absolutely awful. Since I updated to debian jessie, I replaced the few Gnome apps I was still using with alternatives.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby NFT5 » 2017-03-19 23:27

GarryRicketson wrote:http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-would-like-to-see-a-gnome-fork/

Apparently I am not the only one that is not impressed with the changes that
Gnome has made,..years ago it was pretty good, in fact when I first started using
a Linux system , it was what I used, but not any more.


That article is pretty old, dating from 2011, but what Torvalds calls for, a Gnome fork, exists in MATE. Simple, clean, fast and relatively light. Also fairly configurable, possibly not to the extent of KDE or XFCE, but enough to do most of the things that you want. I think that his comment about the way he uses his computer - keyboard for typing and mouse for other things, is also reflective of what most people do, certainly the masses who've come through the Windows system, at least to Win7.

I started with Gnome, too but the move to Gnome 3 lost me, just as Unity drove me away from Ubuntu.

Surely the lesson is out there to be learnt - that a pretty, but difficult to use, non-intuitive interface really isn't what most users want.

What is your desktop anyway? The way I see it, it's just a platform on which the applications/programs that you use to do the real work, reside. It needs to provide a fast and efficient way of accessing those programs and, ideally, keeping them reasonably consistent in look and feel, so that common actions are similar across the range. For some it's a place to hang a pretty picture, although personally I find this terribly distracting and makes finding stuff on the desktop difficult at times since icons get lost in the picture. That's just me, though. A desktop also needs to provide access to panels which are the most popular way of instant access to basic information and commonly used tasks. That's pretty much it from a basic user's perspective. Of course, it does more that isn't quite so apparent, but as Garry notes, much of this can be achieved with a simple window manager.

Of course, then there's the other type of user - the one that is less likely to use the computer for work and demands Steam and everything else that goes with SNS syndrome. Gnome is possibly quite appealing to them.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby NFT5 » 2017-03-19 23:59

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: I think the design paradigm is absolutely spot on.


From this page:


Defining an application

An application is a distinct and independent piece of software that incorporates useful functionality, and which can be installed on a user’s system.

This definition can be broken down into a set of characteristics, which describe an application in more detail. Applications:

Can be individually installed and removed from the system.

Do not rely on other applications in order to run.

Contain functionality of their own.

Provide at least one primary window.

Do not affect or interfere with the behavior of other applications.

Have a unique name and icon.

At the heart of this definition is a model that allows the modular installation and use of 3rd party software, in a way that avoids dependency issues and ensures simplicity of use.

In GNOME 3, only software that conforms to these characteristics should install an application launcher.


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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby MALsPa » 2017-03-20 03:39

Excellent. To sum up: GNOME is awful. Or GNOME is great. Depends on which users you ask. Smh. Maybe coming next, the "Why I do not use KDE anymore" thread.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby Danielsan » 2017-03-20 04:17

I consider Gnome 3 pretty annoying as well as irritating, I tried to use it for a bunch of months but eventually I switched for Xfce4. Probably from the beginning to now its UX has been improved a lot but I don't care, I believe that Gnome 3 is a tremendous act of arrogance and bullying like systemd. Both states are free and independents but every all know well that are project sponsored by RedHat, because of that they believe they can do whatever they want, mainly because the core teams behind these projects are paid to do what they do...

Said that I will not recommend Gnome 3 to anyone but it has two main points over the other competitors:
  • Full support to Wayland;
  • Full support to HiDpi monitors.
The legacy of Gnome 2 for me was inherited by XFCE, for my personal feelings to the former I have never tried Mate and probably I'll never do. I tried Cinnamon but it was seemed to me a fancy copy of Xfce4, but several grades below the quality and the consistency of the former. I liked ElementaryOS and Pantheon, great potential indeed, but the project is too slow and using as base Ubuntu is (IMHO) a bad choice (exactly as Linux Mint) so I don't care about its future and I usually don't promote any *buntu something; I dismissed any *buntu several years ago so I don't know nothing about its current state and I don't care it as well.

WM and Tiling WM are always welcome, those stuff are great and I love theme, I am always tempted to switch to one of theme definitively. I loved one called Echinus it was one among the few that permitted to you to minimize a window on a panel (basically an hybrid DE) and it was easy to modify like I3wm because didn't require to know haswell, lisp, lua or any other script language.

To close, many people love Gnome 3 and I am happy for them because I am happy with my choice!
Last edited by Danielsan on 2017-03-20 04:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby RU55EL » 2017-03-20 04:20

I don't use Gnome any more because the kid that delivers the news paper wouldn't stop knocking it over!
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby Innovate » 2017-03-20 10:52

GarryRicketson wrote:Anyway, no, actually I do use some gnome apps, including 'gparted',
and 'gedit' is a good editor,...but yes, the Full DE, I no longer use.
Interesting replies from every body.
It is nice that we do have choices on these, and can choose to use , or not use
what ever DE and apps,..


I'm glad to you exact gnome de hatre separately from gnome apps which they're different case.
Most every distro pre-installed file-rollers, gedit, gnome-disk-utility, polickykit-1-gnome, gvfs, evince, etc.
which some apps and dependencies they're must have gnome apps on many linux de and wm.
Especially Xfce without gvfs and policykit-1-gnome I can't get authorized to any partitions. :lol:

I also end up with Xfce or openbox as well they're flexible and freedomly customize to many needs.
KDE, Cinnamon, LXDE/Qt, Budgie and other DEs. I've tried them countless time still they
unable to sway me away from my Xfce love-sick.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby Ardouos » 2017-03-20 10:57

IMO Gnome is fine for end users, especially when it works like it is meant to. I would personally never install it on a computer that I would use.

It is great to have a full feature-rich fledged desktop with applications pre-installed for those users who just want to start using their machine. Some people love features and bloat with more tools than they need with pretty neon lights, others thrive on simplicity and elegance away from all of the distractions.

The MATE team have done an excellent job keeping that "Gnome 2 feel" alive, for those who miss it. 8)

A side note also worth mentioning is Trinity desktop which is forked from KDE 3.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby phenest » 2017-03-20 13:33

NFT5 wrote:From this page:

These Human Interface Guidelines are intended to help with the creation of applications.

That page is intended as guidelines for a developer who wants to write a Gnome application. It's not about Gnome itself.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby NFT5 » 2017-03-20 17:02

Hmmm. Clearly I need to re-read Animal Farm. I don't remember the Gnome.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby debiman » 2017-03-21 05:56

Ardouos wrote:IMO Gnome is fine for end users, especially when it works like it is meant to.

in my experience EVERYBODY wants to tweak, even if it's just the font and theme colors.
judging from the various forums' posts and blog articles i see, EVERY gnome user installs the gnome-tweak-tool!
or, they get very confused and angry about why the most polished DE requires them to enter complicated commands just to change something trivial, when really it should be an option in the preferences.
imho, something is very wrong about this approach.

i also linked an article in a previous post:
https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11 ... in-threes/
it's 5 years old, and gnome itself has changed a lot since then.
but the article addresses many points that are not about the software itself but about the people behind it, their attitudes and developer hierarchy etc. those do not change as easily as gnome (pun intended).
please read it, it's very enlightening in a sort of horrible and disgusting way.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby Ardouos » 2017-03-21 11:41

debiman wrote:please read it, it's very enlightening in a sort of horrible and disgusting way.


Thank you for the article.

It does seem that Gnome does try to take features away and preventing others from tweaking the system to their user preferences...

I also knew about some breakages with different GTK3 toolkits, but I did not think it was as bad and malicious how this article makes it out to be. Looks like I have dodged a bullet by staying away from it completely, even though it did tend to peak my interest every now and then...

It just shows how much changes when you look under the magnifying glass rather than through the window. Now, it is become a very dirty window...


Anyhow, it's definitely an eye opener.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby dust hill resident » 2017-03-21 12:22



It's been a good number of years since that was written, but it's still very relevant today. It was only just a year ago that they finally stopped breaking GTK3 themes. And the theming documentation is still rubbish, even if it's better than it was.
Days and days of wasted time and frustration. And almost no documentation. A lot of trial and error. Developing a GTK 3 theme is not fun at all, it’s just very frustrating.

is still a fairly accurate description of making a GTK3 theme.

And from the quotes in the article, you can clearly see the sheer and utter arrogance of the gnome developers, and their complete disregard for users. I won't ever trust Gnome or any Gnome software again, and I hope in the future GTK will be a distant memory and 99% of linux application developers will be using Qt.
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Re: Why I do not use Gnome anymore

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-03-21 12:50

MALsPa wrote:...Maybe coming next, the "Why I do not use KDE anymore" thread.


But I do :)

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