Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby None1975 » 2017-04-20 11:15

debiman wrote:while the world is mesmerized by the antics of the big blonde billionaire baby donald, the russians seem to be deteriorating ever further, and nobody gives a tinker's cuss.

"What did you expect? It's just Russia." (shrugs)

yes, things haven't been actually well in russia for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore. Maybe they'd have to admit that they have no clue what's happening outside their narrow field of vision, so they just cover it up by discussing what they know...

You live in Russia? I think, you not....so, what you know about Russia? Nothing. Your knowledge about this country, is from Western mass media.So, don't be so stupid...
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-20 13:38

So, essentially you are claiming that if someone lives in Russia they can know things about Russia, and that if that same person does not live in Russia, then they cannot know anything about Russia.

Then you are saying that you know things about Debiman. You know that his opinions are all from "Western mass media".

So, are you saying that you live with him? ;)


Here's a question for you: You claim in many places that Western mass media is biased. I don't think that anyone sensible can claim that it is fully unbiased. However, is it not true that something that is biased can also be right? For example. let's say that "biased Western mass media" post an article that claims that Russia is from the bottom of the barrel when measured for democracy. Now, because it was written about by biased Western mass media, do you think that Russia is in reality up there in the top 5?
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby None1975 » 2017-04-20 15:07

Sorry for my bad English.
pylkko wrote:So, essentially you are claiming that if someone lives in Russia they can know things about Russia

Yes.
pylkko wrote: and that if that same person does not live in Russia, then they cannot know anything about Russia.?

How that person can know about Russia, if he is not live in this country? He know about it from mass media, maybe from friends etc. but this is not a same.
pylkko wrote:Then you are saying that you know things about Debiman.

I don't know about him. But he is living in Finland, right?
So, are you saying that you live with him?

Sorry, bro. It is stupid question....
Here's a question for you: You claim in many places that Western mass media is biased. I don't think that anyone sensible can claim that it is fully unbiased. However, is it not true that something that is šališkas can also be right? For example. let's say that "biased Western mass media" post an article that claims that Russia is from the bottom of the barrel when measured for democracy. Now, because it was written about by biased Western mass media, do you think that Russia is in reality up there in the top 5?

Bro, you think, that Western mass media is not biased? If so, you are stupid...Stories about the ubiquitous Russian mafia; murder statistics; journalists supposedly murdered by the “regime”; demographic crisis; the lousy business climate; Putin supposedly being a far right Russian nationalist suppressing minorities, especially Muslim and Chechen ones; and the collapsing military. These are precisely the topics whereof you cannot speak in reputable mass media, because they go against the grain; do not conform with the rigid guidelines for the propaganda narrative on Russia, that is, not anymore.You can tell Putin is a UFO or Darth Vader, because here the reader would have to take the media on trust (and the sheeple do trust, don’t they?).But lying is so much more difficult when you move into the realm of statistically and objectively provable facts. Although, we must admit that in the brave new Western media world, the journalists do not seem to be overly burdened with those facts either. Anyway, those topics have disappeared from the Western media like a fart in the Atlantic Ocean. (Maybe, they will now be reminded to bring them back?).The Russian mafia. Do you remember how the mafia was lurking in every story about Russia? We don’t hear anything about the Russian mafia anymore. How so? What happened? What happened is that Putin crushed it. Crushed it the same way he is now crushing the ISIS, Al Qaeda and other mercenary terrorists in Syria.“Dying Russia.” The Western media used to love writing about the criminal gangs and the “Colombian level” of killings in Russia back in the good old Russia where the liberals held sway. But as soon as the situation began to improve, the reporting stopped abruptly. There have been no news reports telling about the rapidly improving murder statistics.In 2002, the very beginning of Putin’s presidency, there were 44,252 murders, giving a homicide rate of 30.2 murders per 100 thousand residents.By 2015, the number of murders had dramatically fallen to 8 per 100 thousand, down by one tenth from the previous year and being only a quarter of the levels of murders Russia enjoyed during the liberal hay-days. By the way. I don't care about Putin, i don't care about Trump and etc...it is a capitalistic politicians...
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby golinux » 2017-04-20 15:49

Paragraphs are a really good thing . . .
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-20 16:20

by None1975 » How that person can know about Russia, if he is not live in this country? He know about it from mass media, maybe from friends etc. but this is not a same.

I am inclined to agree with None1975 on this, I have never been to Russia , nor the Soviet Union, my idea of what it is like is based on what "the media" say, and
also a few old movies , that were actually made and filmed in Russia,by Russians,
however since those movies were made, 40 or more years ago, they really do not
reflect the current situation now.
Similar situation here on the "western" side of the planet, the U.S, and it's media
make it sound like Mexico is a country of criminals and drug dealers, the people involved in this false media, propaganda and the people that believe it have never even been here, much less lived and worked here,....
It seems like we are missing the point, and keep getting side tracked into other political issues, this includes me, that is why I say we,...

Any way, the scary thing is, the fact that someone running a TOR node could get held responsible for the traffic and data that gets published via that node,..It seems to me like this could be a effective method of discouraging people form setting up nodes.
Just because in this case it was in Russia, does not mean it could not happen elsewhere, especially in the U.S. with it's new organized crime regime , ruled by Trump, and from what I have read in news, there is some rumours going around
that they are passing laws prohibiting anyone from organizing protests against Trump and the new regime, if this is true, they also could very well put someone in jail, for "inciting or organizing a riot, or protest", just because some activists using the TOR node, used it to announce, or invite other activists to participate,...
But again, this could happen in other countries besides the U.S. and Russia,..

Something to think about, but not very pleasant to think about.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-04-20 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-20 16:30

None1975 wrote:Sorry, bro. It is stupid question....

No, actually it is a witty rhetorical question where I use your own logic to come to an absurd conclusion (reductio ad absurdum) in order to demonstrate just how crazy your logic is. Explanation: You are essentially claiming that only a person that has first had real experience of "Russia" can make claims about Russia at the same time as you are making claims about Debiman without having any first hand experience of him. You are also saying that Alexander Yakovenko knows less about Russia than a uneducated drunk in Moscow, because Yakovenko lives in London.

Bro, you think, that Western mass media is not biased? If so, you are stupid..

No I don't think that, as I said that in my earlier post... Maybe something was "lost in translation" but I tried to say that Western Media is biased and that if anything is a fact. But you evade the question that I asked you, and you so so because it hurts (the truth).

Some times when I read pro-Russia arguments which heavily use the "Western bias"-card I am reminded of 1980's postmodernists like Michel Foucault. You know, the kind of person that would be "critical" against anything without offering any better alternative. They would say things like "aboriginals are not selfish, because selfishness is a Western thing". Then some one would show them numbers about behavioral studies comparing Western and non-Western populations and they would respond: "yes, but measurement and science is a Western thing and is biased". Just replace "selfish" here with "democracy" and you get this thread.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby arochester » 2017-04-20 16:59

The following might get your post/ thread LOCKED
- Flaming/ personal attacks
- Obvious trolling
- Thread has wandered way off topic
- Cross posting


"Thread has wandered off topic". No longer reflects the subject.
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