Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

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Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby Hallvor » 2017-04-17 09:04

Statement concerning the arrest:
The Debian Project is concerned to hear that one of our members, Dmitry Bogatov, has been arrested by Russian authorities.

Dmitry is a mathematics teacher, and an active Debian contributor. As a Debian Maintainer, he worked in the Debian Haskell group and currently maintains several packages for command line and system tools.

We await further details of the case against him, but hope that he receives fair treatment and due process.

In the meantime, the Debian Project has taken measures to secure its systems by removing Dmitry's keys in the case that they are compromised.

The Debian Project honours his good work and strong dedication to Debian and Free Software, and we hope he is back as soon as possible to his endeavours.

We send our full support to him and his family.


https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170417.en.html

More information here:

On April 8, the judge of the Presnensky Court of Moscow, Evgeny Naidenov, extended the detention period of mathematics teacher Dmitry Bogatov for another 72 hours. On April 7, the same judge had released him on his own recognizance granted that he did not travel. The teacher was suspected of inciting mass riots. However, on the night of April 7-8, the Investigative Committee presented him with two more serious charges: “calling for terrorist activities or justifying the use of terrorism via the Internet” and “organizing riots”. A new hearing for his arrest will be held on April 10. Meduza explains how one night changed the entire picture.


https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/04/10 ... n-detained
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby debiman » 2017-04-18 05:13

while the world is mesmerized by the antics of the big blonde billionaire baby donald, the russians seem to be deteriorating ever further, and nobody gives a tinker's cuss.

"What did you expect? It's just Russia." (shrugs)

yes, things haven't been actually well in russia for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby pylkko » 2017-04-18 06:01

Ok. So the word on the street is that he was operating Tor exit nodes. Which, if true, could have been used by anyone for anything. One would have to be an expert in Russian law to make any educated estimate upon whether or not he was detained for good reasons or not.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby None1975 » 2017-04-18 11:12

debiman wrote:yes, things haven't been actually well in russia for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore.

No, no, you are wrong. Things haven't been actually well in usa for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore. But you are from Finland, right? How about rise of racism and fascism in your country? Or, maybe, you supporting terrorism, like Dmitry Bogatov?
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby Hallvor » 2017-04-18 13:14

None1975 wrote:
debiman wrote:yes, things haven't been actually well in russia for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore.

No, no, you are wrong. Things haven't been actually well in usa for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore. But you are from Finland, right? How about rise of racism and fascism in your country? Or, maybe, you supporting terrorism, like Dmitry Bogatov?


According to the Economist Intelligence Unit, measuring the state of democracy in 167 countries, Russia ranks 134th, following Vietnam, Togo and Egypt.

The United States was downgraded to a flawed democracy at 21st.

Finland is 9th. By the way, they have long democratic traditions and have bloodied the noses of totalitarian invaders in the past.

If you want to talk about racism, have a conversation with a few Russians about blacks, Jews, people from Caucasus and Gypsies. :roll:
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-18 13:45

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Before the topic gets closed or removed, my 2 cents worth,
The US is not a Democracy any more, it's leader did not get elected by the majority or popular vote, it (the dictator Trump) was appointed by a small, but powerfull group, of organized racists.fascists and criminals.
Basically the same as in Russia, anybody that does not obey and support these
organized crime groups, will certainly be labelled as terrorist, and exterminated
or jailed.
Sad to say, but that is the way it is now a days.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby None1975 » 2017-04-18 15:14

Hallvor wrote:According to the Economist Intelligence Unit, measuring the state of democracy in 167 countries, Russia ranks 134th, following Vietnam, Togo and Egypt.The United States was downgraded to a flawed democracy at 21st. Finland is 9th. By the way, they have long democratic traditions and have bloodied the noses of totalitarian invaders in the past.If you want to talk about racism, have a conversation with a few Russians about blacks, Jews, people from Caucasus and Gypsies. :roll:

It is nonsense. Why? Because democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich – that is the democracy of capitalist society. If we look more closely into the machinery of capitalist democracy, we see everywhere, in the "petty" – supposedly petty – details of the suffrage, in the technique of the representative institutions, in the actual obstacles to the right of assembly, in the purely capitalist organization of the daily press, etc., etc., – we see restriction after restriction upon democracy. These restrictions, exceptions, exclusions, obstacles for the poor seem slight, especially in the eyes of one who has never known want himself and has never been in close contact with the oppressed classes in their mass life (and nine out of 10, if not 99 out of 100, bourgeois publicists and politicians come under this category); but in their sum total these restrictions exclude and squeeze out the poor from politics, from active participation in democracy. In reality, however, the state is nothing but a machine for the oppression of one class by another....
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby debiman » 2017-04-18 17:48

i thought we're talking about russia?
:?

anyhow,
pylkko wrote:One would have to be an expert in Russian law

...this made me chuckle.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby Hallvor » 2017-04-18 18:14

debiman wrote:i thought we're talking about russia?
:?


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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby stevepusser » 2017-04-18 18:58

My feeling is that he was running a Tor node that somebody else used to post the protest messages. Since the government can't find the original poster, he's taking the brunt of their wrath.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-18 19:35

Just goes to show,...ok we all know just because some one uses a TOR browser does not mean they are a criminal, The same, someone running a Tor node might not be, a criminal,..but if and when the so called "leaders" decide to call it a crime
then the person becomes a criminal.
If enough pressure is put on , IE: holding the people that do set up nodes responsible, well, who would want to run a Tor browser node, if it could end up getting them in jail, or worse,..?
Nobody, or very few people, any way,...
Obviously, things like governments (really just the most powerful organized crime group), obviously they do not like the idea of people being able to exchange ideas
and making plans that they do not approve of, and would want to track them down, but they can't,... So the next option, make the people that have nodes pay the consequences,....
For many years I was a agricultural worker,(when I was younger) I worked as far south as southern Mexico, in the winter, to the north, Washington,in the late summer and fall,
picking apples was the best "money maker", in December, back to Mexico, in early January, field preparation, and planting starts, year round, we are "migrants".
Fortunately I all ways had my "paper work" in order, how ever now a days it has become extremely difficult to be sure to have all the documents the various organized crime groups require, it is a mountain of red tape, and there are not enough offices, nor workers, to process the mountain of paper work, so I can travel, without fear of being thrown in jail somewhere, simply because one of my documents was lost, or expired, etc,...

For some, and there are some that can not even really read, or write, it is impossible for them to understand and complete all the paper work required,..
So then , like these people in the US are doing, we are labelled as criminals, and all we are really doing is trying to do a job that most people do not know how, nor want to do, we are just trying to make a honest living, instead of being like the real criminals, that are warmongers, and control every country in the world.
The whole situation is a real nightmare, a nightmare becomes reality,.. any body can be jailed, assassinated, tortured,deported, or "retained", by these people, and they just make up the laws to suit there greedy motives,..any body can be labelled "crimnal", "terrorist", etc, for any reason they choose to invent.
Gypsies, and other migratory people have all ways been treated very badly by
"society", and their "organized crime groups" that they call the government.
So any way,... I am sorry to hear a Debian developer was arrested, it is sad
that there is very little or nothing any body can do.

It won't surprise me to see the world leaders, start trying to crack down on
anything that makes it more difficult , or prevents them from not only keeping
track of everyone , but monitoring the "masses", just to be sure nobody starts making plans, or discussing things they do not want us to be thinking or planning about.
Any body that keeps a secret, will be called a terrorist and criminal, the "public", and mindless masses, will support this, just like they have started to do in the US,
The news will say, "this person is a terrorist", the public says "Yay, bravo, another terrorist removed",.... The new will and does say : "These people are criminals, they do not have all the legal documents we require",
the mindless public: " Hooray, bravo, deport the criminals, send them to Mexico "
They do not even take into consideration the fact that they do not even provide a efficient means of getting the "legal documentation".
And the real criminals will continue to rule,.........
And anybody that runs a tor node, could end up in jail, and be considered to be a terrorist, or criminal.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby pendrachken » 2017-04-18 20:05

GarryRicketson wrote:Forum guidelines. Please read before first post!
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Before the topic gets closed or removed, my 2 cents worth,
The US is not a Democracy any more, it's leader did not get elected by the majority or popular vote, it (the dictator Trump) was appointed by a small, but powerfull group, of organized racists.fascists and criminals.
Basically the same as in Russia, anybody that does not obey and support these
organized crime groups, will certainly be labelled as terrorist, and exterminated
or jailed.
Sad to say, but that is the way it is now a days.



The U.S. has never been a Democracy. Democratic Republic != Democracy!

The U.S. has been a Democratic Republic since the separation from European interests, and has had the electoral college. The electoral college is SUPPOSED to follow popular vote for the constituents of the area, and is set up in a way to avoid what was very nearly had in the last election: a deadlock where the votes were almost 50:50.

Look up how the electoral college actually works, it is quite interesting, and frankly a brilliant idea. Unfortunately it doesn't help with some of the other adverse issues of Democracy like Alex De Tocqueville's Democratic Tyranny. It is better than constant fights over exact vote counts in a close election though, otherwise the two candidates would likely still be fighting over who won as we debate this... Hillary only had a ~2.1% lead in the final popular vote counts which is really too close to be a decisive win.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby ticojohn » 2017-04-18 20:07

None1975 wrote:
Hallvor wrote:According to the Economist Intelligence Unit, measuring the state of democracy in 167 countries, Russia ranks 134th, following Vietnam, Togo and Egypt.The United States was downgraded to a flawed democracy at 21st. Finland is 9th. By the way, they have long democratic traditions and have bloodied the noses of totalitarian invaders in the past.If you want to talk about racism, have a conversation with a few Russians about blacks, Jews, people from Caucasus and Gypsies. :roll:

It is nonsense. Why? Because democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich – that is the democracy of capitalist society.

Actually a TRUE democracy is worse than a a republic (the US was specifically formed as a Republic). In true Republic, the people are protected by a constitution and they are represented in the government through a democratic process of voting. In a true Democracy, the power of the government can be held by, and changed at will by, the most powerful. So in the US (and other places) we are, unfortunately, seeing a shift from a Republican (not to be confused with the political party) to a Democratic (again, not the party) form of government. But as long as the Constitution remains, the US should eventually come out of the hole that the latest elections have put them in. Of course assuming that anybody survives the madmen that are running various countries.

Here is an interesting link
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

And I too am sorry to hear of the arrest of Dmitry.
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby debiman » 2017-04-19 15:24

funny how some people just can't keep it in their pants.
as if we didn't have enough US politics threads already.
Maybe they'd have to admit that they have no clue what's happening outside their narrow field of vision, so they just cover it up by discussing what they know... :?
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Re: Debian developer Dmitry Bogatov arrested

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-19 16:32

debiman wrote:while the world is mesmerized by the antics of the big blonde billionaire baby donald, the russians seem to be deteriorating ever further, and nobody gives a tinker's cuss.

"What did you expect? It's just Russia." (shrugs)

yes, things haven't been actually well in russia for a long time, but i get the distinct feeling that the so-called government (really just a bunch of legalised mafia bosses?) is getting worse all the time; not even trying to give a semblance of democracy and freedom anymore.

I know what you mean, it really is more about Russian politics, and I will admit
I know next to nothing about that, nor US politics for that matter,
In any event it really saddens me, that politics , have affected someone involved
in the development of Debian.
I noticed this comment, I am sure other have as well but I am going to quote it:
from: https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170417.en.html
In the meantime, the Debian Project has taken measures to secure its systems by removing Dmitry's keys in the case that they are compromised.

And then :
from:https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/04/10/mathematics-teacher-accused-of-inciting-mass-riots-now-also-accused-of-supporting-terrorism-and-once-again-detained
However, as his lawyer Aleksei Teptsov said in an interview with Meduza on April 8, became known that late in the evening it Bogatov had been taken away for interrogation at the Investigative Committee yet again.

It makes my very sad, "my toes curl" so to speak, I don't know what kind of "interrogation techniques" these people use, but it sound horrible, ..hopefully
he can prove to them that just because he ran the node, does not mean he actually was directly involved in " organizing mass riots " ,...
When a dictator or whatever they call the "leader", when a government treats
the people badly, the people are very likely to start organizing mass efforts, which could be called riots.,... in any event it is a sad situation, perhaps since I don't really know anything about what is really going on, that is why it scares me ?
The helpless feeling, as well, it seems like there really is not much any body can do,... maybe just pray to whatever Deity one believes in.
Ooops, now it is going religious, I'm sorry,...maybe I better just shut up.
bye
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