Apparently I...

If it doesn't relate to Debian, but you still want to share it, please do it here

Apparently I...

Postby vbrummond » 2017-04-30 02:27

Have been a member of this board for 7 years. Good times. :) I hope I helped some folks along the way. I still respect Debian highly, but frankly I have moved to Mac OS, and SUSE.

How has open source changed since you started your journey? My first Linux distro still used the O(1) scheduler (opensuse 10.3). :) I may not have switched from windows if my computer didn't have nice Nvidia OpenGL drivers, proprietary or not. I actually liked Windows Vista at the time, but was not impressed with how slow it was.

Sadly I only run Linux in virtual machines now. :(
System: Retina 5K iMac, 27-inch, Late 2015 - Intel i5-6600 3.3ghz, 8gb RAM, AMD Radeon R9 M395 2048 MB
OS: Mac OS 10.12
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby debiman » 2017-04-30 05:59

vbrummond wrote:How has open source changed since you started your journey?

since 2011?
slowly, continuously. getting more and more attention.
security becoming a major topic. and "cloud stuff" has gotten so much more common (not all of it is bad or bloat).

the distros themselves, i couldn't say.
I have changed, but all the distros i ever used have been around 6 years ago, and are now.
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby vbrummond » 2017-04-30 15:34

System requirements of all the desktops have sure changed. :|
System: Retina 5K iMac, 27-inch, Late 2015 - Intel i5-6600 3.3ghz, 8gb RAM, AMD Radeon R9 M395 2048 MB
OS: Mac OS 10.12
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby golinux » 2017-04-30 15:39

vbrummond wrote:System requirements of all the desktops have sure changed. :|
More bloat and reduced features for users including the ability to customize.
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-04-30 16:56

I first started using GNU/Linux at the end of 2013, since then it has become cruftier; I expect this pattern to continue in the future.
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby Roken » 2017-04-30 17:26

My first distro was Debian 2.2 on Amiga. Here I am, still using Debian on my laptop and my VPS (though sadly, not on my main rig, which is Arch).

EDIT: Since the contact details are so far out of date it's untrue, not my first, but one of my first posts: https://lists.debian.org/debian-68k/200 ... 00011.html

Reading back through it, it certainly shows how much more user friendly Linux has become.
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-30 18:32

by Roken »Reading back through it, it certainly shows how much more user friendly Linux has become.

Hmm, interesting how peoples perspective vary, to me, this is a problem, Linux is becoming less user friendly, but more "microsoft" friendly.,,...


To me 2011, is really modern, and recent,...but any way "Open Source" software
has been around for quite some time , and has changed a lot, just like everything else:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_free_and_open-source_software
Initial decline of free software

By the late 1960s change was coming: as operating systems and programming language compilers evolved, software production costs were dramatically increasing relative to hardware. A growing software industry was competing with the hardware manufacturers' bundled software products (the cost of bundled products was included in the hardware cost), leased machines required software support while providing no revenue for software, and some customers able to better meet their own needs[7] did not want the costs of manufacturer's software to be bundled with hardware product costs. In the United States vs. IBM antitrust suit, filed 17 January 1969, the U.S. government charged that bundled software was anticompetitive.[8] While some software continued to come at no cost, there was a growing amount of software that was for sale only under restrictive licences.

In the early 1970s AT&T distributed early versions of UNIX at no cost to government and academic researchers, but these versions did not come with permission to redistribute or to distribute modified versions, and were thus not free software in the modern meaning of the phrase. After UNIX became more widespread in the early 1980s, AT&T stopped the free distribution and charged for system patches. As it is quite difficult to switch to another architecture, most researchers paid for a commercial licence.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, computer vendors and software-only companies began routinely charging for software licences, marketing software as "Program Products" and imposing legal restrictions on new software developments, now seen as assets, through copyrights, trademarks, and leasing contracts. In 1976 Bill Gates wrote an essay entitled Open Letter to Hobbyists, in which he expressed dismay at the widespread sharing of Microsoft's product Altair BASIC by hobbyists without paying its licensing fee. In 1979, AT&T began to enforce its licences when the company decided it might profit by selling the Unix system.[9] In an announcement letter dated February 8, 1983 IBM inaugurated a policy of no longer distributing sources with purchased software.[10]
1980s and 1990s
Informal software sharing continues

However, there were still those who wished to share their source code with other programmers and/or with users on a free basis, then called "hobbyists" and "hackers".[11] Before the introduction and widespread public use of the internet, there were several alternative ways available to do this, including listings in computer magazines (like Creative Computing, SoftSide, Compute!, Byte, etc.) and in computer programming books, like the bestseller BASIC Computer Games.[12]

It would be best to read the entire wiki page, if younger people have a genuine interest.

I started with my first computer, using MS dos 1.1 (not open source , ) but I was able
to get it from a friend for free, ... Later when it was first released I went to
"FreeDos"
The FreeDOS project began 29 June 1994

Before FreeDos was released and in the mid 80's there was very little available commercially, as far a programs go, and most of those were not very good, but using the resources available online, libraries,etc, one could find better software, opensource , and usable (usually), but in any event basically easy to modify if need be,...
For the things I needed /wanted to do, mostly ham radio related, really the only software available was either "roll your own", or something another "ham" had all ready written, and offered as "open source", it needed to be open source, so it could be modfied to work on my hardware.
As far as nowadays, goes , a trend that bothers me is the "bloat", and wasteful use of
disk space, not counting most of the stuff being done nowadays is overly complicated, containing huge amounts of unneeded code,..consuming GB's when it can be done in a more simple manner, and only use 3 or 400 mb.
All though Linux was being developed, and I was aware of it, I did not have any reason or need to try it, I could access a unix server with my Dos system, and do anything I needed to do online. In 1998, I kind of dropped out of "computers" and did not even have one for several years, a "vacation" so to speak,.. later when I did start using a computer again, and my boss at work bought me a laptop, I could not use the windows XP it shipped with, ...just like the first versions of Windows, MS software is not very good, Windows does not work well, and useless because it can not be repaired or modified,..so any way I put
FreeDos on the laptop, the first Linux version I stumbled onto after doing some searches, was not Debian, but "Knoppix ", I think it was "2.2" but really don't remember,...later I started with Debian 6,.. as my first Debian version,... how ever the trends, and I understand the Debian developers are trying their best to keep the "mainstrean" users happy,... I am not a "mainstream" type of person, and am finding the Open BSD, and Minix3 more suitable to my needs, ...it is unfortunate that Debian has change so much in a very short period of time, but I suppose it is for the better, since so many "mainstream" users like it.
Since I am using older equipment, I find that Debian 6 works the best, Debian 7 , also works well, but beyond that, unless I go out and buy newer equipment, and that is not likely, unless I find a computer manufacturer the makes new computers , but with out the "secure boot" and UEFI , it will not be brand new , but older, reconditioned,...

I will not buy a computer that requires any kind of "signature" code, or "microsofts" special permisson to install a OS,
From : http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=132751
Status on the Stretch release
Postby None1975 » 2017-04-15 07:23
Hi. This is a brief status. First off, a list of items with progress:
* Secure boot support: We got a signature from Microsoft on our shim bootloader.

...I suppose that is another topic, but this is the biggest change that I do not like,..the way microsft has their teeth into everything.
If the OS or hardware requires a signature from Microsoft, then I will not need or use it, on the other hand, I guess this is great news for all the "mainstream" users.
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby edbarx » 2017-05-01 08:07

GarryRicketson wrote:Since I am using older equipment, I find that Debian 6 works the best, Debian 7 , also works well, but beyond that, unless I go out and buy newer equipment, and that is not likely, unless I find a computer manufacturer the makes new computers , but with out the "secure boot" and UEFI , it will not be brand new , but older, reconditioned,...

I will not buy a computer that requires any kind of "signature" code, or "microsofts" special permisson to install a OS,

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=132751 wrote:Status on the Stretch release
Postby None1975 » 2017-04-15 07:23
Hi. This is a brief status. First off, a list of items with progress:
* Secure boot support: We got a signature from Microsoft on our shim bootloader.


...I suppose that is another topic, but this is the biggest change that I do not like,..the way microsft has their teeth into everything.
If the OS or hardware requires a signature from Microsoft, then I will not need or use it, on the other hand, I guess this is great news for all the "mainstream" users.


I found UEFI without secure boot to be much better than booting a machine in legacy mode. I am talking about an HP Probook 4540s laptop, that according to many, is hostile towards Linux. Unlike MBR boot, UEFI boot uses a file located in a readable file system, FAT32 EFI System Partition, instead of reading some "file" in the first sector which require additional data saved in even more obscure places. Once an EFI System Partition is created with the proper flags, and the following directory tree is created, booting is like a faithful charm that always work.

This is for UEFI as used by HP Probook 4540s:
Code: Select all
# tree
.
`-- EFI
    |-- Boot
    |   `-- bootx64.efi
    |-- debian
    |   `-- grubx64.efi
    |-- devuan
    |   `-- grubx64.efi
     `-- Microsoft
        `-- Boot
            |-- BCD
            |-- BCD.LOG
            |-- BCD.LOG1
            |-- BCD.LOG2
            |-- bg-BG
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- bootmgfw.efi
            |-- bootmgfw.efi.grub
            |-- bootmgfw.efi.windows
            |-- bootmgr.efi
            |-- BOOTSTAT.DAT
            |-- boot.stl
            |-- cs-CZ
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- da-DK
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- de-DE
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- el-GR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- en-GB
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- en-US
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- es-ES
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- et-EE
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- fi-FI
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- Fonts
            |   |-- chs_boot.ttf
            |   |-- cht_boot.ttf
            |   |-- jpn_boot.ttf
            |   |-- kor_boot.ttf
            |   |-- malgun_boot.ttf
            |   |-- malgunn_boot.ttf
            |   |-- meiryo_boot.ttf
            |   |-- meiryon_boot.ttf
            |   |-- msjh_boot.ttf
            |   |-- msjhn_boot.ttf
            |   |-- msyh_boot.ttf
            |   |-- msyhn_boot.ttf
            |   |-- segmono_boot.ttf
            |   |-- segoen_slboot.ttf
            |   |-- segoe_slboot.ttf
            |   `-- wgl4_boot.ttf
            |-- fr-FR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- hr-HR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- hu-HU
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- it-IT
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- ja-JP
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- ko-KR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- lt-LT
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- lv-LV
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- memtest.efi
            |-- nb-NO
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- nl-NL
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- pl-PL
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- pt-BR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- pt-PT
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- qps-ploc
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- Resources
            |   |-- bootres.dll
            |   `-- en-US
            |       `-- bootres.dll.mui
            |-- ro-RO
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- ru-RU
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- sk-SK
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- sl-SI
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- sr-Latn-CS
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- sr-Latn-RS
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- sv-SE
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- tr-TR
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- uk-UA
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   `-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |-- zh-CN
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            |-- zh-HK
            |   |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
            |   |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
            |   `-- memtest.efi.mui
            `-- zh-TW
                |-- bootmgfw.efi.mui
                |-- bootmgr.efi.mui
                `-- memtest.efi.mui

49 directories, 132 files


As you can see, most files have to do with different languages. These were installed by Windows 8.1.

GRUB-EFI boots using:
Code: Select all
/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
Bootmgfw.efi is grubx64.efi renamed ,so that, this particular laptop's firmware finds it. Other firmwares are more well behaved, in the sense, they do not assume one must have Windows installed. Notwithstanding this limitation, this laptop boots my GNU/Linux installations reliably. There is, however, one pitfall, this is when Windows 8.1 fails to boot for some reason. In such a case, the laptop's firmware tries to repair Windows by writing again Windows 8.1's boot loader overwriting bootmgfw.efi effectively disabling all Linux installations, but not for anyone who understands what one is doing.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby sgian » 2017-05-10 23:11

I first tried linux with SimplyMepis using KDE back around 2005 because of all the malware I was getting and I didn't want to have to buy that newfangled (to me) antivirus and firewall programs just to use windows. I had so much trouble with that OS, and never got it to work entirely right on my hp desktop so I went back to Windows for a while. Then I found out about Ubuntu around 2008 or 9, and have been using primarily linux ever since then. Other than Unity, I've liked most of the changes that have come along, especially with ease of installation compared to my first experience with linux.
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Re: Apparently I...

Postby esp7 » 2017-05-11 18:26

vbrummond wrote:Have been a member of this board for 7 years. Good times. :) I hope I helped some folks along the way. I still respect Debian highly, but frankly I have moved to Mac OS, and SUSE.


wtf? :shock:

I can easily spend twice the price of the latest macbook on my next computer but goddamn it, I would not even spend 10 euros on apple hardware! the evil company which could 'DRM' a normal usb socket and cable :lol: nope, never, wont happen :mrgreen:

I only bought once a 2nd generation iPod Nano and I am happy Rockbox allowed me to remove the digital handcuffs. Never jamais de ma vie I will buy another piece of their malware.

over here it's even the opposite trend, more and more people around me fully move to Linux, although not Debian but mainly Mint. I thank Win10 for this :lol:
Software is like sex: it's better when it's free © Linus Torvalds
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