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Postby Grell » 2017-05-12 16:56

remove this thread because i don't need a flame war
Last edited by Grell on 2017-05-13 00:50, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-05-12 17:19

Use your local "yellow pages", find a lawyer, locally that is familiar with
small business's, and the local laws,
Post by Grell »For instance I do not want to be held responsible if someone loses all the data on their hard drive due to some fluke command I may type.

After explaining to the lawyer what conditions you want to have in the "contract", have them write up a contract form, that your clients sign before you start.
But also I would like to say.... there is no way I would hire some fly by night clown to work on my computer or system if they can not or will not guarantee and be responsible for their actions, or "fluke" commands, that they may use because they don't know what they are doing.
My guess is most people would feel the same.
Note : Please don't be offended, I am not saying you are a "fly by night clown",...the point is, if some one does not know what they are doing, they need a "contract" or disclaimer, to protect their selves, because they might
try some "fluke" command, that causes damage or data loss.
There are situations where one can not guarantee the results, for example
a HD that is damaged and needs to be replaced, one might not be able to guarantee all of the data can be recovered, this would also depend on how badly damaged the HD is,...obviously you are not responsible for any damage that all ready exists.
How ever, for example, a client wants you to install a Linux system, they have windows, and want to keep it, and have a dual boot system, you have to be able to guarantee you won't wreck the windows partition, and then not be able to restore it, if you know what your doing , you would know how to back up a partition, no matter what the OS is, and also back up ALL of the clients data, in such a way that you can guarantee you won't lose their data, while experimenting with "fluke" commands.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby phenest » 2017-05-12 17:26

It doesn't sound like you're competent enough to do this if you're concerned about accidentally losing someone's data through a "fluke command".
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby Grell » 2017-05-12 17:28

Sorry if I stated things a bit rashly. No I do not at all feel that I would destroy someone's data, in fact I have never once in the 16 years using Linux, deleted a hard drive. It was a poor choice of words. But the point I was trying to get across is in the off chance that there is data loss I do not want to get sued. Sorry for the misunderstanding in my first post.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby phenest » 2017-05-12 17:45

I'm not sure that any disclaimer or legal contract is going to help you though. You'd have to produce a document to users prior to doing the work to explain your exclusion from responsibility. I wouldn't be right to produce it after the deed is done. But, if you showed me that document, I wouldn't let you near my computer.

On the off chance you do accidentally destroy someone's data to the point that it's unrecoverable, they are going to want some sort of compensation. Or, at the very least, they will tell their friends what you did, etc, etc.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-05-12 19:30

Grell wrote:Sorry if I stated things a bit rashly. No I do not at all feel that I would destroy someone's data, in fact I have never once in the 16 years using Linux, deleted a hard drive. It was a poor choice of words. But the point I was trying to get across is in the off chance that there is data loss I do not want to get sued. Sorry for the misunderstanding in my first post.


I've been in the business > 25 years and getting sued is part of the cost of doing business. That's why insurance companies are doing so well :)

That said, if you're dealing with personal data there's really not a lot of value there for a customer to sue; you can't successfully sue someone for a million bucks for losing pictures of the grandkids. Courts are about making things right, not making someone rich.

If you asked me to sign a disclaimer I'd show you the door; that's just business and I have every right to expect a professional to conduct business professionally. I would expect that if you lost my data you'd send the drive off to Ontrack or someplace else with a clean room for data recovery and I'd expect you to pay the bill.

The kind of liability we're talking about, you don't need much insurance.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-05-12 20:05

I understand the concern, "things happen",...
But after all said and done, if you are getting paid to work on someone else equipment , you need to take the responsibility.
I also realize some people would and will take advantage of a situation and sue any body for anything if they can. You could write up a document of sorts
your self, make copies of it, and especially when you don't trust your client or know them . If they don't want to sign it, don't accept the job.
It still might be wise to check with a real attorney to make sure it would stand up in court, if the person actually ended up taking you to court.
I just don't think very many people are going to trust you to do the job,
if you feel something might go wrong,...you could use the document on a
"as needed" basis, on jobs that are simple, and there is no question about being able to do what ever needs to be done, without losing any data, etc.
probably no need for it.
On other situations, like when the hardware all ready is in really bad shape, or maybe the Windows partition is very corrupted,infected,etc,..
yes it might be wise to be honest with the client, tell them there is a big chance lot's of data , or all will be lost, etc, and you will not do the job unless they agree to sign the disclaimer,...a little common sense and logic goes a long ways.
"mal practice" insurance might be a good idea. Also, a real attorney is best
because they know how to word a disclaimer in a way that protects you , but does not make it sound like you don't know what you are doing.
But really, if you know how to make good back ups this should not be a issue. The key to it is to check to back up, and make sure it really is a perfect clone of the original system, and with the data. This would or could also be used as your evidence, if the HD was all ready corrupted, etc,..some data might be all ready lost before you even started working on it,...if things went to court, and the complainer claimed their computer was in good condition, etc,...you would have something to show it really wasn't.
Of course if the computer and system was in that bad of shape, that would be a time when the disclaimer is needed, before even touching it.
If it looks real bad, and don't even touch it, have the client show you what
is wrong, and let them boot it, run the program that is failing, etc,... if it appears to be a risky situation, have them sign the disclaimer first, before even touching the key board, repeating my self I think,..but if they don't want to sign, don't accept the job.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby phenest » 2017-05-12 20:24

If you're only going to be helping members of the general public, then the likely outcome of cocking something up is, you'll end up doing it for free. If you have the experience you say, then it's a question of being confident in what you know and do. As wizard said, courts are for making things right, not making people rich.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby dasein » 2017-05-13 00:00

At the risk of piling on, I'm going to add my voice to the chorus of folks suggesting that you're already in over your head. The "legal disclaimer" issue is merely a symptom of the underlying problem.

A quick look at your posting history shows that you need other folks' help in order to resolve very basic things like installing Flash and dual-booting. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. It certainly doesn't indicate the level of expertise necessary to provide professional technical services.

"Post question on FDN, then charge for providing the answer to client" is not a sustainable business model.
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Re: Small Linux tech support startup

Postby Grell » 2017-05-13 00:43

Ok. I don't necessarily need your two cents on whether I have skills or not. I don't need this thread becoming a flame war. I did not create it to see if you approve of my idea, I just wanted a few pointers in the right direction. In any case feel free to delete this thread because the last thing I need is an ongoing flame war between me and everyone on this forum. I'd rather just have this thread removed instead of taking a load of shit from people. Please remove this thread, I do not like flame wars and this thread seems like it is about to become me versus everyone on this forum.

Seriously, can a mod please just delete this thread? I don't need to argue with people on the Internet. Just remove it please, thank you.
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Re: delete this thread

Postby Grell » 2017-05-13 00:56

If you have criticism you can give it to me in a polite fashion. I don't need rudeness coming from people that I don't even know. I don't care whether or not you think I am capable of providing tech support, that was not my question so your advice is unwarranted and unsolicited. Please act polite, I did not attack you did I?
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Re: delete this thread

Postby dasein » 2017-05-13 01:15

Presumably you would find it similarly "impolite" if I noted that you lack the skills and expertise to do brain surgery.

And your suggestion via PM that I kill myself says vastly more about you than it does about me.

Edit: For someone who supposedly doesn't want a flame war, you're certainly doing a great job of faking it.

Edit the Second: Even if you had the skillz, your childish behavior is another strong reason for you to consider a different line of work, one that doesn't involve extensive public contact.
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Re: delete this thread

Postby Grell » 2017-05-13 01:15

Ok
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Re: delete this thread

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-05-13 01:27

I don't see anywhere that anybody has been rude, or "attacked" you.
The moderators are not likely to "lock" the thread or delete it,...it is unfair to those that
took the time to respond.
Asking for legal advise here, is kind of beyond the scope of the forum, but since it is
off topic that is not a problem.
However as far as I know we do not have any attorneys as members,...
In anyevent, to request that the topic be removed or any other issues requiring
administrative assistance , please see this:
HOWTO contact forum moderators/admins
If you no longer wish to continue with the discussion ,or there is nothing more to discuss , you can also edit the original post,subject line,...as you all ready did, but
it would have been better to keep the title, and just add (solved) to it,...
You do not have to read, or post more replies, if you don't want to continue with the topic....
Any way good luck on your new venture, hope it all works out. Even though there never was even a "thank you" for those that took the time to reply, Your welcome, and have good day/night
====added note====
I would report the PM, that is a terrible thing to say, and can one imagine what
could happen, if the person that recieved the PM happened to be have "manic depression" ?
Someting like that could be the "straw", and cause them to do something foolish.
Dasein>And your suggestion via PM that I kill myself says vastly more about you than it does about me.

@dasein, please don't take this guy seriously,...we all have our good sides and bad sides,...but nobody should ever be told they should kill their self.
I say this from experience, my mother shot her self when I was 8 years old, she was manic depressive and taking medicines, "witch" doctors perscribed, combined with alcohal ,...another factor, of many I remember very clearly, the day before it happened
she had a argument with someone, very close to her and that "someone" got very mad and said " I hate you, I wish you would kill yourself ", the "someone" was a younger sibling, about 3 years old, and I all ways hope they don't remember having said that, but I do remember hearing them say it. Of course a 3 year old , has no clue as to what they are saying,...but any way it is a ugly memory.
Another case, a truck driver, on the CB, said he was going to kill him self,..and some idiots all started saying "go ahead","go ahead, nobody cares. " "your to chicken , you won't do it" , etc ,..egging him on,... we all heard the shot over the radio,.and when the police came they found him in his truck, he shot himself. The microphone was still in the other hand.
Oddly enough that actually happened in New York, Bronx, near or at [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunts_Point,_Bronx] "Hunts Point" [url] if I remember correctly.
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Re: delete this thread

Postby dasein » 2017-05-13 01:31

GarryRicketson wrote:@dasein, please don't take this guy seriously,...we all have our good sides and bad sides,...but nobody should ever be told they should kill their self.

I thought I was on your ignore list :mrgreen: (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Don't worry, it's impossible for me to take this guy seriously, on any level. Although your point that some folks are indeed quite fragile is very well taken.
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