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Wow. Really?

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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golinux
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Re: Wow. Really?

#41 Post by golinux »

arochester wrote:
Currently only a very small number of packages require attention
A one-trick pony?
A person or group noteworthy for only a single achievement, skill, or characteristic.
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one-trick_pony
Not really getting that except it sounds demeaning and unknowledgeable about how Devuan is built/set up.
arochester wrote:What is an "independent" distribution. Not a fork? Not a derivative? But independent???
Yes. Quite possibly no longer directly dependent on the Debian repos. We could work from a cached repository of Debian pkgs and use that as our base for Devuan pkgs moving forward and/or work directly from upstream source. ASCII should be OK with our cuirrent setup. Beowulf? I don't have a crystal ball . . .
May the FORK be with you!

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Re: Wow. Really?

#42 Post by arochester »

1) So... (amongst others)...
Arch Linux is wrong.
CentOS is wrong.
CoreOS is wrong.
Debian is wrong.
Fedora is wrong.
Mageia is wrong.
OpenSUSE is wrong.
Redhat Enterprise Linux is wrong.
Suse Linux Enterprise Server is wrong.
Ubuntu is wrong.

Devuan is right.
2)
Not really getting that
If Devuan can do more than one thing that Debian doesn't do, do you want to tell us about that?

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golinux
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Re: Wow. Really?

#43 Post by golinux »

arochester wrote:1) So... (amongst others)...
Arch Linux is wrong.
CentOS is wrong.
CoreOS is wrong.
Debian is wrong.
Fedora is wrong.
Mageia is wrong.
OpenSUSE is wrong.
Redhat Enterprise Linux is wrong.
Suse Linux Enterprise Server is wrong.
Ubuntu is wrong.

Devuan is right.
LOL! I keep visualizing lemmings going over a cliff . . . Assuming that numbers somehow equate to 'right' is an illogical and unjustifiable conclusion. A majority is just that and has nothing to do with a judgment of 'right' or 'wrong'. The issue is choice. Your 'right' might be my 'wrong' and vice versa.
arochester wrote:2)
Not really getting that
If Devuan can do more than one thing that Debian doesn't do, do you want to tell us about that?
We have fixed several bugs and sent patches back to Debian. Plus we have developed unique package management and image building workflows,

I suspect we may also support more arm boards than Debian and we have iso options that Debian doesn't have and even virtual images.
May the FORK be with you!

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dasein
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Re: Wow. Really?

#44 Post by dasein »

It's called the bandwagon fallacy, and is based on the wrong-headed notion that popularity and correctness are synonymous (when in fact they are not even vaguely correlated).

So... (amongst others)...
Plato was wrong.
Aristotle was wrong.
Pythagoras was wrong.
Ptolemy was wrong.
The bible is wrong.
Over 1,000 years of conventional wisdom was wrong.

Well... yeah. As a matter of fact, turns out that they were all wrong. (Bummer, huh?)
If Devuan can do more than one thing that Debian doesn't do, do you want to tell us about that?
Wait... I can fix that for you...
If systemd can do more than one thing that existing userspace doesn't do, do you want to tell us about that? (Hint: whatever you name has to be worth at least $1,000,000,000 in deployment costs.)

P.S. In point of fact, for 60% of Debian developers who voted in the GR, the nicest thing they could find to say about systemd and gratuitous init coupling is that it "should be avoided." (Their words, not mine.) See http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 30#p576502 for math.
Last edited by dasein on 2017-06-01 14:41, edited 1 time in total.

fsmithred
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Re: Wow. Really?

#45 Post by fsmithred »

Wow again. Sorry I'm late to the party. I've been so busy, I forgot all about this thread.

Garry, thank you! I posted because I thought it was a bit severe for the original thread to get locked so quickly. I didn't think this one would last, either. But you fixed it double. You pinned the original, and this one is still here.

I don't have any philosophical arguments to share right now. I've been using devuan for over a year, and to me, it looks and acts just like debian always has. Rock-solid and dependable.

Well, ok, but just one. Diversity in an ecosystem increases the stability of that system.

Thanks again.

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GarryRicketson
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Re: Wow. Really?

#46 Post by GarryRicketson »

by fsmithred »But you fixed it double. You pinned the original, and this one is still here.
No, actually not me, a mod or admin decided to pin it,...

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acewiza
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Re: Wow. Really?

#47 Post by acewiza »

Bulkley wrote:The Devuan fork lets Debian developers off the hook for users who need the option.
Please explain this "hook" you speak of. I am unaware of any liability the Debian community may or may not have towards Devuan or their users. But then again, the list of things I am unaware of is certainly much longer than the list of things I am aware of. :roll:
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.

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phenest
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Re: Wow. Really?

#48 Post by phenest »

None1975 wrote:
phenest wrote:Devuan forums fill up with posts about how better Devuan is than Debian but they need systemd for some reason. I can't think of a reason but someone will..
Yes, you are right. I really miss it, full of happiness popular and exciting systemd. I loved when my system hangs while shutting down, love message, like: "A stop job is running for..." https://postimg.org/image/ar7e3ashz, And he's a good companion, and can easily solve the problem when nothing else to do. With systemd there is always something to do!
Really? I've seen none of that. You can call me lucky, but none of my 3 computers have shown any evidence that systemd requires maintenance, or that it's buggy.

And I'd like to thank you for snipping that quote to make it look like I prefer Devuan and have no need for systemd. I've now tried Devuan. I can't say I've noticed any difference. Might as well carry on with Debian. Besides, Devuan is now 2 years behind Debian.
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Bulkley
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Re: Wow. Really?

#49 Post by Bulkley »

acewiza wrote:
Bulkley wrote:The Devuan fork lets Debian developers off the hook for users who need the option.
Please explain this "hook" you speak of. I am unaware of any liability the Debian community may or may not have towards Devuan or their users.
There's no liability, just guilt. It's sort of like food banks let politicians avoid responsibility for hungry children. Devuan helps to take the pressure off Debian developers to provide init choices. If Debian developers had done their job properly a bunch of disgruntled users would not have felt it necessary to break away and create a fork distro. Just sayin'.

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Danielsan
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Re: Wow. Really?

#50 Post by Danielsan »

I don't understand why the rule if you don't like something that do your fork is valid for all the people but Devuan's devs...

If Devuan want do a Debian version without systemd can they are free to do it? They are not even reinvented the wheel, they are just using sysvinit instead of systemd, as I far I saw they are having a low profile, and they are doing their job.

Just because they aren't using systemd many people still continue to feel hurt... Crazy not?

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alan stone
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Re: Wow. Really?

#51 Post by alan stone »

Danielsan wrote:I don't understand why ...
Just because they aren't using systemd many people still continue to feel hurt... Crazy not?
The psychology of divorce at work?

Or of living apart together?

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acewiza
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Re: Wow. Really?

#52 Post by acewiza »

Bulkley wrote:There's no liability, just guilt. It's sort of like food banks let politicians ...
You appear to have a very vivid imagination. But if thinking that makes you feel better about the issue, by all means...
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.

Wheelerof4te
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Re: Wow. Really?

#53 Post by Wheelerof4te »

A bit late to the party, but nevermind...

Congratulations to the Devuan team, I'm glad it all worked out in the end and we got ourselves a new Debian derivative.
Shouldn't everyone be happy now? Debian users who hated systemd got their systemd-free Debian-based OS; Everyone else has Debian.

I don't see any reason for Debian users who want systemd to go to Devuan since it's basicaly the same as Debian. Or it at least should be.

Devuan would have kept systemd had it not become a dependency hell imbedded in every piece of DE software ever.

So these arguments are pointless.

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