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dasein wrote:I must be reading wrong.... 17GB???

No you're not. Basic mirror requires @20 gb. Have you never visited the available options?

dasein wrote:I must be reading wrong.... 17GB???

Yes, 17gb...... I'm thinking that must have been everything. I ended up downloading the netinstall directly from one of the mirrors, instead.

The 17GB includes all the different architectures. The AMD64 Live is less than < 900MB.

Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

ruffwoof wrote:Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

Why on earth would Devuan want to do that?!

golinux wrote:

ruffwoof wrote:Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

Why on earth would Devuan want to do that?!

init freedom ? ...

dilberts_left_nut wrote:

golinux wrote:

ruffwoof wrote:Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

Why on earth would Devuan want to do that?!

init freedom ? ...

That depends what you consider 'init freedom'. And that is why the announcement concludes with this:

Init Freedom

Devuan is about choice. We think people should be able to choose whether to use a GNU+Linux system with or without systemd.

Devuan decided to fork not only the base distribution, but also its governance, because Debian has made it difficult to avoid systemd as init, entangling the system with unnecessary dependencies and did so despite widespread community concern. We encourage potential Devuan users who wish to install systemd to use Debian’s installer, Debian’s packages and Debian’s mailing lists, all available directly from Debian’s mirrors.

But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

phenest wrote:But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

For God's sake, why?

ruffwoof wrote:Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

I don't think the OP here, understands or knows what Devaun Jessie really is,
hence, the question,....
To try to clarify, Devaun Jessie is a "fork", of Debian Jessie, the developers of
Devaun went through some great effort to remove systemd, this is what makes
Devaun distinctly different, if one wants systemd, then they should not use Devaun,
they should use Debian Jessie, it installs with systemd by default.
If you do not want sytemd, one option is to install Devaun Jessie, when you update and when upgrades are available, you would want to use the Devaun repositories , and keep
it non-systemd, trying to mix the 2 would lead to all sorts of problems, and trying to add
systemd to it would be pointless, since the systemd version of Debian Jessie is available.
Questions and discussion about Devaun Jessie really should be asked here :
https://dev1galaxy.org/
That is where you will find the people involved with it's development and that know
more about this.

GarryRicketson wrote:

ruffwoof wrote:Does Devuan Jessie support

apt-get update;apt-get install systemd-sysv

upgrade?

I don't think the OP here, understands or knows what Devaun Jessie really is,
hence, the question,....

It was a rhetorical question ... spoken (written) in jest (hence the smiley).

None1975 wrote:

phenest wrote:But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

For God's sake, why?

My question isn't rhetorical. I don't want to do it, and I wouldn't suggest it to anyone. Just want to know the answer. Yes or no.

phenest wrote:My question isn't rhetorical. I don't want to do it, and I wouldn't suggest it to anyone. Just want to know the answer. Yes or no.

Try it and see.

phenest wrote:

None1975 wrote:

phenest wrote:But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

For God's sake, why?

My question isn't rhetorical. I don't want to do it, and I wouldn't suggest it to anyone. Just want to know the answer. Yes or no.

Not without unpinning and reassembling packages that have been sanitized of frivolous 'entanglements'. I would predict dependency hell and unlikely things would work very well.

None1975 wrote:

phenest wrote:But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

For God's sake, why?

Feels like those guys in the 70ies arguing that it's sexist for men to be excluded from battered women's shelters.

deborah-and-ian wrote:Feels like those guys in the 70ies arguing that it's sexist for men to be excluded from battered women's shelters.

Thanks for capturing what I couldn't quite put into words!

I want to emphasize that Devuan is NOT Debian without - or worse, "against" - systemd. Systemd will be supported in Devuan. Devuan is a fork in favor of freedom of choice. Sysvinit will remain the default init system, but all init systems will be supported - at least, all those that are packaged in Debian at the moment.

Translation from http://forum.debianizzati.org/viewtopic ... 04#p188107 dated 11/30/2014

golinux wrote:

phenest wrote:But is it possible to install systemd in Devuan?

Not without unpinning and reassembling packages that have been santized of frivolous 'entanglements'. I would predict dependency hell and unlikely things would work very well.

At last, someone who knows how to answer a question.

So, basically, the answer is "no". But how long will it be before some user wants to do it, and the Devuan forums fill up with posts about how better Devuan is than Debian but they need systemd for some reason. I can't think of a reason but someone will.

What the hell, I'm going to download Devuan now. (And no, it's not to try systemd with it.)

arochester wrote:

I want to emphasize that Devuan is NOT Debian without - or worse, "against" - systemd. Systemd will be supported in Devuan. Devuan is a fork in favor of freedom of choice. Sysvinit will remain the default init system, but all init systems will be supported - at least, all those that are packaged in Debian at the moment.

Translation from http://forum.debianizzati.org/viewtopic ... 04#p188107 dated 11/30/2014

That was well over two years ago. The landscape has changed a LOT since then. Most importantly, systemd has become much more than init. Its system wide entanglements have made co-existence within a single installation an impossibility. Think what a glacier does slowly to everything in its path. Eventually there is only the glacier . . .

That's why Devuan encourages users who want to run systemd to use Debian. Devuan will continue to provide an alternative of modularity in the Unix tradition (which it seems Debian has abandoned).

I read on slashdot that GNU's own init system (shepherd) is available on Devuan. I wonder how well that works. I don't want to mess around with GNU's linux distro because of the libre kernel that would cause problems on a lot of hardware, I suspect.