Debian User Forums

Posted: **2017-07-13 23:25**

I dont know how are others DE going on in Stretch or new testing, but Ive found KDE5 impressive solid, no crashes anywhere, anytime. I'd say right now KDE5 is the perfect Desktop, everithing works perfect, no crashes, no matter what you do or try. They did a great job with kde plasma.

Ive been testing and using KDE 5.8.6, 5.8.7 and 5.9 and all of them are solid as rocks, i didnt give into any crash.. So i dont know How are Xfce, Mate, Gnome or others DE going on, but KDE5 right now, is the ultimate Stable desktop, very fast, and smooth.

Posted: **2017-07-14 04:54**

I'm running the 64 bit Gnome deal and it has been trouble free for me. Me likes. I have recently jumped off the Ubuntu boat. I like Debian.

Posted: **2017-07-14 19:59**

The OP does not understand, that just because their opinion of a DE is
that it is best, or "ultimate" , others have perhaps better "taste", well maybe
not "better" but different.
It is like saying "Oranges are the ultimate fruit",... but if I don't like oranges ?
" I hate oranges," "Apples are the ultimate".

DE's are bloated and a waste of time, and get worse every few months.
A good simple Window Manager, now,.... that is the "ultimate".

P.S. And I came to this conclusion after trying all the different "fancy" DE's, that
seem to be the rage nowadays,.. none of them come close to being as efficient,stable,reliable as a simple WM, and the CLI.

Posted: **2017-07-14 20:01**

GNOME live image was very stable and responsive. On hard drive it would be a beast. I also like GNOME apps more.

Posted: **2017-07-15 04:01**

Wheelerof4te wrote:GNOME live image was very stable and responsive. On hard drive it would be a beast. I also like GNOME apps more.

Gnome feels very stable, indeed in my opinion was the most stable DE until KDE5. But you know what.. Gnome is very extrange thing, i tried several times, to see if i was able to adatpt to that thing.. it was not possible at all.

Unity, Xfce, Mate, Android, KDE, Windows, OsX were all dektops i could get use to them, but Gnome is just an app search plasmoid plus nautilus; an ugly and horrible thing. I even tried Classic-Gnome to try a Gnome2 layout, and that was paitfull as hell. Perhaps with Ubuntu taking control over Gnome, It can be a worthy desktop again.

Posted: **2017-07-15 05:44**

bester69 wrote:Gnome is just an app search plasmoid plus nautilus; an ugly and horrible thing

LOL!

Whatever, dude.

I regularly use various DEs/WMs here, including GNOME Shell and Plasma 5. Stability is a non-issue, from what I'm seeing. Okay, you use and love KDE5; everyone's happy for you.

Posted: **2017-07-15 07:51**

MALsPa wrote:
bester69 wrote:Gnome is just an app search plasmoid plus nautilus; an ugly and horrible thing
LOL!

Whatever, dude.

I regularly use various DEs/WMs here, including GNOME Shell and Plasma 5. Stability is a non-issue, from what I'm seeing. Okay, you use and love KDE5; everyone's happy for you.

Ok, Tha's what really matter, you all very happy for me.

Posted: **2017-07-15 11:29**

bester69 wrote:I dont know how are others DE going on in Stretch or new testing, but Ive found KDE5 impressive solid, no crashes anywhere, anytime.

Your observations do not correlate with mine.
IME, KDE5 is pretty much exactly as buggy as KDE4 was in it's early releases, and KDE3 before that.

Bugs that spring to mind, in no particular order:
* Font corruption on mousewheel scroll (known QT5+libinput bug, not fixed).
* Font corruption in kickoff launcher (after above worked around by removing libinput).
* Some widgets crash plasma (okay, so buggy third-party code at fault, but this should NOT be able to crash plasma).
* Default task manager hangs if a window group contains >60 or so windows, no ability to scroll window group like KDE4.
* Balloo file indexer is still a turd, and periodically hangs all KDE UI elements if allowed to index a slow filesystem (e.g. NFS share). Whether this is resource starvation or something blocking in KF5 I don't know and don't care. KDEs sematic desktop (and Akonadi in general) is garbage, and always has been. No option to index filenames only (which mitigates this) in UI.
* Akonadi et al. again - adding an owncloud server as a CAL/CARD DAV resource appears to work, but calendar does not populate entries unless CARDDAV resource is added separately in kaddressbook.
* Kmail reports "Your mail server does not support PLAIN" on any authentication error, despite PLAIN being the only option.
* Discover has the worst UI I have ever encountered. Period. Whoever coded this: Can I have some drugs? I know you've got the good stuff. Might want to dial it back a bit when at work though.
* I suspect this was the same dev who decided that 'long-click' was a good default for activating the desktop widget controls... Seriously? Long-click? WTF is that? Sure, I can turn it off, but as a default... Just, NO.
* Many "legacy" (xembed) system tray icons do not work properly, are missing context menus etc. I know why, but I sure don't like it. At least they sort of work now, removing xembed support was a properly moronic decision.

The performance improvements are nice (though most are from QT5, not KDE per-se), and the new UI theme is... tolerable. That a large number of important apps have not been ported to KF5 is pretty disappointing though.

All in all, it's not bad. But it'd sure be nice to have a major release without a bunch of new bugs.
I certainly wouldn't call it "The Ultimate Stable Desktop", not by a long way. It's pretty usable, but it's got it's fair share of issues.

Posted: **2017-07-15 15:15**

steve_v wrote:
bester69 wrote:I dont know how are others DE going on in Stretch or new testing, but Ive found KDE5 impressive solid, no crashes anywhere, anytime.
Your observations do not correlate with mine.
IME, KDE5 is pretty much exactly as buggy as KDE4 was in it's early releases, and KDE3 before that.

Bugs that spring to mind, in no particular order:
....
The performance improvements are nice (though most are from QT5, not KDE per-se), and the new UI theme is... tolerable. That a large number of important apps have not been ported to KF5 is pretty disappointing though.

All in all, it's not bad. But it'd sure be nice to have a major release without a bunch of new bugs.
I certainly wouldn't call it "The Ultimate Stable Desktop", not by a long way. It's pretty usable, but it's got it's fair share of issues.

All those things are classic bugs, they wont ever fix, they dont even care about those things... KDE is a very big thing, they cant lose time with minor things. I guess others DE have plenty of the same stuff bugs.

For exmaple, I cant see the trayIcon from Kalarm anymore, it has just dissapeared. I just know its there somewhere invisible and minimized

. Can you consider this a properly bug?. These kind of minor bugs appears and dissapears with new updates.

Posted: **2017-07-16 11:18**

bester69 wrote:Can you consider this a properly bug?

Certainly. Unless it's designed to not work properly, it is, by definition, a bug.

Don't get me wrong, I do like KDE, but this attitude where valid bugs are ignored as '"minor irritations" (or simply buried) appears to systemic in the KDE project. And that's not a good thing at all.
The general idea is that number and severity of bugs should reduce over time... yet the KDE devs seem to feel a reset back to square one is normal at every major release.
If your code is so broken that you feel the need to start over, with every new version being a ground-up rewrite, there's something seriously wrong. That the thing works at all is a minor miracle.

I'm pretty sure the shambolic state of the KDE bugtracker has a lot to do with this. Here are the "reasons" from community.kde.org (complete with grammatical errors to illustrate the current state of quality control):

---
High number of Duplicates:
Users report bugs again and again, with an increase number of bug reports it gets more and more difficult to find the duplicates. DrKonqui lets users allow to report bugs even if there are high number of duplicates.

No Bug Triaging:
There is no Bug Triaging team. Plasma reports are triaged by one person, KWin bugs by two persons. This is way too less for an efficient system.

No Developer is responsible for Bugs:
Various components don't have a maintainer responsible for the bugs. Both Plasma and KWin have only a small number of developers responsible for all bugs.

Old Bugs don't get closed:
There are many old bugs just bitrotten without any information whether the bug is still valid. This is especially a problem for crash reports when the code changed since the bug was reported.

No Quality Control of Bug Reports:
Everyone is allowed to open bug reports and to comment on them. There is no way to ensure that a bug report has the required quality.
---

KDE5 is nice and shiny... I like shiny, but I was kinda hoping for a bit of work on the bugs (and the bugtracker too).
Guess everyone was too busy with core rewrites and strange UI "experiments" (I'm looking at you, Discover) to bother with that.

And the biggest problem? KDE/Plasma has no QA team whatsoever.

The concept is sound, and some of the execution is excellent. But the development process appears to be based on the "barely controlled chaos" model... That's kinda cool and quirky, but I doubt it's helping release quality.

Anyway, that's my daily rant taken care of. I like KDE, I really do. And I can't moan too loudly, since I don't think I could do it better, it's just a bit frustrating that it's still so buggy after all this time.

Besides, GNOME isn't much better.

Posted: **2017-07-16 16:18**

steve_v wrote:
bester69 wrote:Can you consider this a properly bug?
Certainly. Unless it's designed to not work properly, it is, by definition, a bug.

Don't get me wrong, I do like KDE, but .....
.....
Anyway, that's my daily rant taken care of. I like KDE, I really do. And I can't moan too loudly, since I don't think I could do it better, it's just a bit frustrating that it's still so buggy after all this time.

Besides, GNOME isn't much better.

you're right, im agree . We can ask much about GNU.. In my case, i dont focus in these smalle issues, i ignore them, Im vvery happy with KDE since debian Jessie, Now even more with KDE plasma, which is more stable and faster.

The mos i like about KDE is dolphin and kontact/kmail (akonadi framkework).

Posted: **2017-07-16 18:11**

steve_v wrote:That the thing works at all is a minor miracle.

Don't hold back, steve. How do you really feel?

For the record, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I like KDE, but KDE's dev team resembles the Keystone Cops on steroids, and their "seat-of-the-pants" approach to design results in massively wasted effort. And their QA is nonexistent; there was a reason the Debian's KDE team held back KMail forever.

Posted: **2017-07-17 00:17**

I've been using Plasma 5 in siduction for a few months now and am very pleased with it. No crashes, no showstopper bugs (actually can't think of any bugs that affected me). I really like the look of it too. The worst thing I have come across is my old transparent Conky config doesn't work, it actually corrupts the whole desktop requiring logout/login to recover. It has less niggles than MX even, which I used previously and has a good reputation for stability.
Maybe I just don't use those components that have the bugs. Definitely not Kmail, which I'd like to see working well but have read too many reports of issues.
I use Harrison Mixbus as a DAW and it has quirks in KX Studio (based on Ubuntu 14 point something with KDE4) where plugin dialog boxes lose focus or visibility when they shouldn't. A Mixbus dev on their forum said it's because KDE doesn't follow freedesktop.org's XDG guidelines so it's hard to work around. The same issues don't happen with an Xfce based setup.
I know a Debian dev personally who refuses to have anything to do with KDE as he says it's devs are "too weird".
Bottom line is, it works for me but YMMV.

Posted: **2017-07-19 00:15**

@wizard10000 I love you! That works fine except for nvidia-settings throwing heaps of warnings, although it displays fine. I removed that section for now and believe it may be related to KDE not following freedesktop.org XDG guidelines. I use Harrison Mixbus and the issue came up with plugins display and a Mixbus dev said KDE is the only DE they can't support because of this.

Code: Select all

** (nvidia-settings:11550): WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files

I ran into the autostart problem ages ago, it's because conky starts before the desktop is drawn. Try:

Code: Select all

conky -p 5

A smaller number (seconds) may work too. Just tested, works here.

Posted: **2017-07-19 09:07**

I don't know if I like it. Yesterday, two strange things happened.

1. Suddenly I had to type in the wifi password every time after waking the computer from suspend.
2. A few hours later, the battery monitor widget suddenly complained that no battery was detected. (acpi detected the battery just fine.)

At the moment I even like KDE3 better than this.

Posted: **2017-07-19 13:59**

KDE looks good really in Stretch, but the problems I had with connecting my Android devices using MTP, made me stick to Gnome. Maybe I did something wrong. I don't know. But when I found out that not even KDE Connects network browse function works with SD cards, I gave up.

Posted: **2017-07-22 22:11**

sunrat wrote:@wizard10000 I love you! That works fine except for nvidia-settings throwing heaps of warnings, although it displays fine. I removed that section for now and believe it may be related to KDE not following freedesktop.org XDG guidelines. I use Harrison Mixbus and the issue came up with plugins display and a Mixbus dev said KDE is the only DE they can't support because of this.
Code: Select all
** (nvidia-settings:11550): WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files
I ran into the autostart problem ages ago, it's because conky starts before the desktop is drawn. Try:
Code: Select all
conky -p 5
A smaller number (seconds) may work too. Just tested, works here.

Have you tried KDE5.9??
You can use Netrunner backports for it, i tested with stable, and it works very well.:

Code: Select all

# KDE5.9 Netrunner Backports
deb http://deb.netrunner.com/dci/packages/netrunner/ netrunner-backports backports calamares ds9-artwork ds9-common extras frameworks kde-applications netrunner-desktop netrunner plasma plasmazilla qt5

Posted: **2017-07-23 00:36**

I will use Plasma 5.9 when it is in Sid repo. I wouldn't be comfortable adding a 3rd party repo for that.

Found a workaround for the warnings generated by nvidia-settings. Add to ~/.bashrc:

Code: Select all

# fix for WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files
export NO_AT_BRIDGE=1

Posted: **2017-07-25 12:11**

Have anyone tried mycroft on KDE5 yet?

Posted: **2017-07-25 15:27**

sunrat wrote:I will use Plasma 5.9 when it is in Sid repo. I wouldn't be comfortable adding a 3rd party repo for that.
Found a workaround for the warnings generated by nvidia-settings. Add to ~/.bashrc:
Code: Select all
# fix for WARNING **: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files
export NO_AT_BRIDGE=1

It is a repo based on debian testing, and you only update DE KDE packages. Do you have installed BTRFS?, you should have it, it's the best linux filesystem in my opinion, it allow you to test anything easilly, and you can rollback in a minit to a previous snapshot,

Thanks to btrfs i can test anything without having to reinstall, I can even install others distros in same partition sharing home subvolume, as i can use home's snapshots without the afraid of messing the home directory by sharing it with others distros.

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