ARM, here I come! [was AMD]

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ARM, here I come! [was AMD]

Postby Segfault » 2017-11-09 23:17

Last edited by Segfault on 2017-11-10 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-10 00:14

I like Minix, it is a good OS, and yes, that is a wonderful feature, it is small and simple, it can be embedded in a small chip, and is very secure.
I suspect Google does not want it or like it for other reasons,...maybe because
they have no control over it ?
I trust Minix, and Andrew Tanenbaum,more then I trust Google, maybe I need to remove google from my system :mrgreen:
Note to Intel: If Google doesn’t trust your CPUs on their own servers, maybe you should consider removing this “feature.” Otherwise, at some point they’ll (likely) move away from your CPUs entirely.


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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby Segfault » 2017-11-10 02:22

So it does not worry you if your CPU opens a tunnel and gives 100% access to your computer to a third party.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby golinux » 2017-11-10 04:15

There a very long thread about this on Devuan's DNG mail list starting with this link:

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20171030.055913.44761087.en.html

That video is quite enlightening. Do watch.

And you might want to rethink that AMD is the solution:

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20171109.175824.8412a570.en.html
Last edited by golinux on 2017-11-10 18:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-10 04:28

Postby Segfault » 2017-11-09 20:22
So it does not worry you if your CPU opens a tunnel and gives 100% access to your computer to a third party.

No , it does not worry me, and it is not the fault of Minix 3, nor Andrew Tanenbaum . To start with what Intel is using for it's Management Engine
is not really Minix, it is based on Minix, and
I don't believe it works quite the way that article is trying to make it sound like. There is a lot in that article that just does not "rhyme" up,
Google wants to remove MINIX from its internal servers

According to Google, which is actively working to remove Intel’s Management Engine (MINIX) from their internal servers (for obvious security reasons), the following features exist within Ring -3:

That link to "according to Google", is mostly about getting rid of UEFI, it says
nothing about Minix, I do agree, and would love to see UEFI and the so called
"secure boot" junk removed and banned from all new computers,...
Minix, is not "closed source, and is not the problem, as the writer tries to make it sound,..
It is so very obvious the author is pro- Linux, but anti-Minix, yet Minix is not the problem, The problem is the UEFI, Intel,and it's ME, If INTEL, has programmed, or used code based on Minix OS, embedded it in their chip,to do bad things, that is fault of Intel, not Minix, nor Andrew Tanenbaum .
There has been an ongoing battle between Linus Torvalds and Andrew Tanenbaum ever since Linus started working on his kernel, but that is another topic.
However something many linux users do not know:
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_S._TanenbaumOne of these subscribers was a Finnish student named Linus Torvalds who began adding new features to MINIX and tailoring it to his own needs. On October 5, 1991, Torvalds announced his own (POSIX like) kernel, called Linux, which originally used the MINIX file system, but it is not based on MINIX code.[24]

I notice this:
From: http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/04/intel-me-way-of-static-analysis.html In addition, when we looked inside the decompressed vfs module, we encountered the strings “FS: bogus child for forking” and “FS: forking on top of in-use child,” which clearly originate from Minix3 code. It would seem that ME 11 is based on the MINIX 3 OS developed by Andrew Tanenbaum :)

Hmm, It says, "BASED on Minix 3". So isn't this kind of like when some
kiddie script writer uses Kali, to exploit or compromise some bank,or something Kali, is based on Debian, oh my, We need to get Debian out of all the systems, it could be put to evil uses.
So some of the code they are using , originated from Minix 3 code," Oh my GOD, we have got to get rid of Minix, it is evil , evil, evil. "
I think the author and Linus are jealous, of the fact that Intel is using code based on what is known as Minix, instead of Linux, how ever Linux, in the hands of Intel,and Microsoft, can be put to just as much evil, as they have done with code , BASED on Minix.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-11-10 05:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-10 04:54

Just another thought, I wonder, if Google is so dead set against Minix 3, like the author of the above article tries to make it sound, then Why, do they allow
a news group, for the students, and developers using Minix ? ,.. now Minx 3.4.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/minix3
Minix 3 What Is MINIX 3?

MINIX 3 is a free, open-source, operating system designed to be highly reliable, flexible, and secure. It is based on a tiny microkernel running in kernel mode with the rest of the operating system running as a number of isolated, protected, processes in user mode. It runs on x86 and ARM CPUs, is compatible with NetBSD, and runs thousands of NetBSD packages. Get MINIX 3 now and join our community!

It is a great little OS, and perfect for, some of my older equipment, and yes it
can be used to power the CPU, it does not have to be "based on Minix 3 " and locked down, like Intel has done, ....
Am I evil, because I am using Minix in my CPU ? Oh my God, here comes
Google, they are going to take it away, and make me use something else...
give me a break.
This is past, but any way : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/minix3/eQXMhscIPmQ
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby pylkko » 2017-11-10 06:05

I haven't checked the facts, but according to the Free Software Foundation AMD has an equivalent system baked in. In order to avoid having another processor having ring -3, i.e better access to your hardware and data than root (kernel is protection ring 0), you gave to avoid x86 entirely.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby alan stone » 2017-11-10 07:58

AMD, here I come!

Do you mean Advanced Micro, correction: Monitoring, Devices?
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby Lysander » 2017-11-10 09:08

pylkko wrote:I haven't checked the facts, but according to the Free Software Foundation AMD has an equivalent system baked in.


Indeed, people have been saying this for years, that both Intel and AMD CPUs have 'backdoors' built into them. A casual Google finds articles going back to at least 2013 about similar concerns. Jumping ship to AMD won't make much difference.

For what it's worth, here's what RMS says

The current generation of Intel and AMD processor
chips are designed with vicious back doors that users cannot shut
off. (In Intel processors, it’s the "management engine".)

No users should trust those processors.

https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/a-message ... foundation

I personally can't see myself moving from my Q8400 for a while. Backdoor or no backdoor. I think that one can tie oneself in knots over security and privacy concerns ad nauseum. By the time one has reconfigured or replaced one's hardware the next piece of FUD will hit the internet.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby ticojohn » 2017-11-10 15:24

Think I'll go back to using my abacus. No back doors there. LOL!
I'm not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-11-10 16:38

One thing I haven't heard anyone mention is that if your NIC isn't Intel I don't see how their ME can connect to anything.
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby Segfault » 2017-11-10 16:42

wizard10000 wrote:One thing I haven't heard anyone mention is that if your NIC isn't Intel I don't see how their ME can connect to anything.

Having 100% control over everything I do not see there would be any difficulties for MINIX to reach out to the internet using any hardware available, it may rely on user OS provided drivers in some cases, though.
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Re: ARM, here I come! [was AMD]

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-10 16:45

That is why I like Minix and use it :mrgreen:
Code: Select all
#mount/dev/cpu1 /data
#cd /data
#pwd
cpu1/data/
cpu1#uname -a
MINIX 3.3.0. (588a35b)
Copyright 2014, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The
Netherlands
MINIX is open source software, see
http://www.minix3.org
Started VFS: 9 worker thread(s)
 e1000#0: Intel PRO/1000 MT 82545EM (8086/100f/00) at
2.0.0
#locate (name removed for protection of the innocent)
#located : print data or save P or S....
#S
#data saved to f673100043291100.dat
#exit
$

:mrgreen:
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Re: ARM, here I come! [was AMD]

Postby Segfault » 2017-11-10 17:11

For those ready to brick their computers, here is the link: https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner
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Re: AMD, here I come!

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-11-10 17:16

Segfault wrote:Having 100% control over everything I do not see there would be any difficulties for MINIX to reach out to the internet using any hardware available, it may rely on user OS provided drivers in some cases, though.


According to Purism

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/purism ... 32576.html

For AMT to allow remote access, three things are necessary: an Intel chip with vPro support, an Intel networking card, and the corporate version of the Intel Management Engine binary.
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