boosting Stable with some testing packages

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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby stevepusser » 2017-11-29 01:16

bester69 wrote:
pylkko wrote:hybrid testing/stable doesn't sound like a good idea considering that many (if not all) of the packages from testing can probably be built safely for stable. That is, if they are not already in the backports repository.

But you should always consider the additional amount of maintenance that will come with anything like this (or your FrakenDebian). Are those new features really worth the effort? When they are, you should consider it, but it is really easy to believe that they are when they just really aren't...

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38976

Also, another thing.. You have said several times that you use some specific Ubuntu kernel, was it maybe 4.4. I don't know how good of an idea it is to use that with newer btrfs user space tools...

I think you can do anything it holds on, thats my final conclusion with linux, so many versions, you can mix everithing like a spanish salad as long as it works.. Thanks to god, we can use btrfs's snapshots, so the nightmares are over.. Yes im using 4.4.39 for so long, right now Im trying to move to ubuntu's 4.8 , the performance seems similar..

Im also holding some packages due to performance; they are:
linux-misc-firmware and xserver-xorg-core


Hmmm..we're using a 4.13 kernel backported from Buster for the MX 17 betas right now...it supports more hardware for the amdgpu driver than the 4.13 currently in stretch-backports, and I boosted the kernel frequency from 250 to 1000 Hz for desktop use. Seems to work fine in the beta--I rebuilt the kernels in generic Stretch pbuilder VMs so they are good for Stretch, too.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Krita 3.3.2.1, Pale Moon 27.6.0, Audacity 2.2.0, mpv 0.27.0, Corebird 1.7.1, Firefox 57.0, SMPlayer 17.11.2
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby dcihon » 2017-11-29 01:26

You know if we had a Board for Debian Testing then the Stable users wouldn't have to get upset with these kinds of conversations.
Also they could just concentrate on questions for Stable Debian.
Am I off base here?
Sorry for hijacking the post.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby bester69 » 2017-11-29 01:39

bw123 wrote:......

In the context of a frankendebian system I guess I can see how it would be very valuable. So if I was to pursue that kind of setup, I guess exploring btrfs snaphots would be a good idea.

You should right now move to btrfs filesytem, its the best thing ive ever done, its very easy to understand and it nevers fails. It allow you to do anything with the system, you restore the system snapshot with a tree comands.
Since then ive even installed opensuse, ubuntu and others system in the same partition.. , Ive upgraded to debian testing and rollback to stable snapshot, Ive tested several configurations with a snapshot for each one, keeping the stable ones. Its absurd to keep using ext4 when it doesnt give you snapshots, and they offer you identycal speed IO.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby bester69 » 2017-11-29 01:57

stevepusser wrote:....
Hmmm..we're using a 4.13 kernel backported from Buster for the MX 17 betas right now...it supports more hardware for the amdgpu driver than the 4.13 currently in stretch-backports, and I boosted the kernel frequency from 250 to 1000 Hz for desktop use. Seems to work fine in the beta--I rebuilt the kernels in generic Stretch pbuilder VMs so they are good for Stretch, too.


Why is that?, Are newers kernel dropping old more suitable firmwares?, Im testing now 4.13 debian's.

"and I boosted the kernel frequency from 250 to 1000 Hz for desktop use." --> Are you overclocking??, my system is AcerExtensa5230, wonder if i can increase cpu.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-11-29 06:35

bester69 wrote:"and I boosted the kernel frequency from 250 to 1000 Hz for desktop use." --> Are you overclocking??, my system is AcerExtensa5230, wonder if i can increase cpu.

stevepusser is referring to the frequency of the kernel interrupts — 250Hz is the default, 1000Hz gives less lag and a more "responsive" desktop (allegedly).

EDIT: check your Ubuntu kernel's interrupt frequency with:
Code: Select all
grep CONFIG_HZ /boot/config-${kernel-version}-$arch

Replace ${kernel-version} with the kernel version and replace $arch with the architecture (probably amd64).
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby pylkko » 2017-11-29 11:51

I believe that one of the nicest things about free open source operating systems is that one can try out setups that have never been even considered before. In that sense I want to support idiosyncratic, bizarre new ways to use Debian. In this particular case it just seems that there are easier ways (backporting).

Responding to Spanish salad argument: I just mean that an important part of the btrfs stack is in the kernel and the devs always say to use the latest. It sure sounds like there could be some serious amount of risk there. The kind of risk that a snapshot wont fix (possible corruption of the subvolumes themselves). So, I would be cautious.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby n_hologram » 2017-11-29 15:44

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:For example, with your "btrfs-tools" package (which is now a transitional package that installs btrfs-progs), the versions are exactly the same

bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing

One must imagine Sisyphus is happy.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby stevepusser » 2017-11-29 18:02

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
bester69 wrote:"and I boosted the kernel frequency from 250 to 1000 Hz for desktop use." --> Are you overclocking??, my system is AcerExtensa5230, wonder if i can increase cpu.

stevepusser is referring to the frequency of the kernel interrupts — 250Hz is the default, 1000Hz gives less lag and a more "responsive" desktop (allegedly).

EDIT: check your Ubuntu kernel's interrupt frequency with:
Code: Select all
grep CONFIG_HZ /boot/config-${kernel-version}-$arch

Replace ${kernel-version} with the kernel version and replace $arch with the architecture (probably amd64).


Yes, I just manually change a couple lines in the kernel configuration text file in /debian before the rebuild to effect that change, instead of running one of the configuration utilties that come with the kernel. The frequency can also be seen as how often the kernel does context switches--which is the switching of the CPU from one process or thread to another. Ubuntu's is also faster than the Debian kernel's 250 Hz, which is considered better for server use.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Krita 3.3.2.1, Pale Moon 27.6.0, Audacity 2.2.0, mpv 0.27.0, Corebird 1.7.1, Firefox 57.0, SMPlayer 17.11.2
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby debiman » 2017-11-29 19:41

Wheelerof4te wrote:I wonder what topic will you open next? Can we have someting involving cats, please?

more likely about some borkage that persists even after restoring from btrfs snaphots... blaming debian or even kernel devs for it.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby sunrat » 2017-11-30 06:21

Confirmation bias FTW. :wink:
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Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby bester69 » 2017-12-05 23:39

Now, Ive very very tested working very good and stable the following configuration, a easy and controlled mix of stable and testing, with ubuntu's kernel engine.
- Debian Stretch
- Ubuntu kenel 4.4.39_amd64
- Ubuntu kodi17.6 (Zesty)
- Opera Stable 42.0.2393.517

From Testing.:
- i965-va-driver, Libva-* (1.8.3)
- libdrm* (2.4.82)
- libav* (7:3.4-4)

This configuration works like a charm for an Acer Extensa5230.. 8)
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby debiman » 2017-12-06 09:32

bester69 wrote:Now, Ive very very tested working very good and stable the following configuration, a easy and controlled mix of stable and testing, with ubuntu's kernel engine.
- Debian Stretch
- Ubuntu kenel 4.4.39_amd64
- Ubuntu kodi17.6 (Zesty)
- Opera Stable 42.0.2393.517

From Testing.:
- i965-va-driver, Libva-* (1.8.3)
- libdrm* (2.4.82)
- libav* (7:3.4-4)

This configuration works like a charm for an Acer Extensa5230.. 8)

i'm sort of out of sarcastic remarks concerning this user.
if it really "works like a charm", i guess we will never again see a help request from him/her anymore.
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Re: boosting Stable with some testing packages

Postby sunrat » 2017-12-06 12:16

debiman wrote:i'm sort of out of sarcastic remarks concerning this user.
if it really "works like a charm", i guess we will never again see a help request from him/her anymore.

I refer the honourable member to this post where he breaks stuff yet again - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=135517#p660347

And who else would embark on research to find out if Ubuntu kernel would work in Debian?
I encourage this kind of courageousness (as Sir Humphrey Appleby would call it). It's almost as good as watching The IT Crowd.
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Those who have lost data
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