A Leap to Testing

If it doesn't relate to Debian, but you still want to share it, please do it here

A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2017-12-29 21:01

I am switching to Debian Testing for the duration of Buster development. Stretch has too many annoying little bugs (including a major kernel one), which won't be fixed anytime soon. I think this will be quite a ride. I'm already impressed with the state of Buster. Since I'm a veteran Debian user, I'll consider reporting bugs if and when I come around them.
This will also be my first real contribution to Debian development. If anyone has some tips for running a Testing system, please share them. I know a few myself, and will be glad to help those who decide to test the next Debian release. Ones most reccomended are to install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges.
Another good tip that most newbies don't know is to actually read what changes apt will make when you do
Code: Select all
apt dist-upgrade

If any importand packages are removed or held back, there is your clue that something might be wrong.
Best tip is to have weekly or even daily backups of your most importand data. Have a separate /home partition, don't just put everything on one.
User avatar
Wheelerof4te
 
Posts: 799
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Bulkley » 2017-12-29 22:01

I haven't found any bugs in Stretch. Maybe that is because I don't use either Gnome or KDE. I'm also using a desktop that is a few years old. So, why are you finding so many bugs? I'm asking because it would be unfortunate to take the bugs with you on your new adventure in Buster. Please, I'm not trying to discourage you. You might find a good match with a Testing system.

You are right that backup is important. There are many different kinds. Before I do a major upgrade I like to do a complete clone including Grub on a spare drive. That way, when I screw up (which I often do) I have a sure fire replacement.
Bulkley
 
Posts: 5509
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2017-12-29 22:15

I'm affected by this bug. Pulseaudio would stutter when opening another program while music is playing. CPU usage would spike randomly without any reason. I've seen that a lot of packages in Stretch are beta versions, including grub2 at some point. Well, these are avoidable and/or have a workaround. But there is something unsettling with running a system that won't get random bugs fixed for at least 2 years.
User avatar
Wheelerof4te
 
Posts: 799
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Bulkley » 2017-12-30 02:37

Wheelerof4te wrote:I'm affected by this bug.


Looking at your bug link the posters seem to think it is a kernel issue. Have you tried another kernel? Since you are already considering a leap to Testing why don't you try the Buster kernel? (Make sure to keep your present kernel.) It shouldn't hurt to try it.

The only problem I've ever had with Pulseaudio has been figuring out which buttons to push. We do see lots of complaints about it so there may be something to it. I wonder what could conflict with it. A browser maybe? Sorry, I just don't know.
Bulkley
 
Posts: 5509
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2017-12-30 09:58

Bulkley wrote:Looking at your bug link the posters seem to think it is a kernel issue.


I know it's a kernel issue :D
So far, Buster seems like Fedora, only with much more packages.
User avatar
Wheelerof4te
 
Posts: 799
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby dcihon » 2017-12-30 12:56

I have been on testing for a while now.
I am by far not a debian expert but these commands have worked well for me and my system has been pretty stable.
I have a few issues that are minor but I am patient and I know they will be solved as time goes on.
I run these commands at lease once per day to keep updated:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get autoclean && sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo aptitude purge $(deborphan)
dcihon
 
Posts: 197
Joined: 2012-09-23 16:18

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-12-30 13:09

dcihon wrote:I run these commands at lease once per day to keep updated:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get autoclean && sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo aptitude purge $(deborphan)

Two points:
  1. The `aptitude` command auto-autoremoves so why not just use `apt update && aptitude full-upgrade` (along with deborphan)?
  2. Is `apt-get autoclean` really a good idea? Having old package versions to downgrade to can be useful in a pinch.
EDIT: disregard the second point, I was getting confused with the clean/autoclean option :oops:
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby dcihon » 2017-12-30 13:16

Thanks for the info. I am always learning.
I will use your commands and see how that goes.
You are correct in the statement of having old package versions to downgrade to but mixing package versions on testing has always gave me other issues to deal with and I end up just going back to a back up and then holding back some packages until the problem gets solved in a later update.

My system is pretty simple and I use mate as my DE.
Here is my source list and system specs just for reference:
Code: Select all
inxi -rFxx
System:    Host: cihonm Kernel: 4.13.0-1-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 gcc: 6.4.0
           Desktop: MATE 1.18.0 (Gtk 3.22.26-2) dm: lightdm Distro: Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid
Machine:   Device: desktop System: Dell product: Inspiron 3650 v: X00 serial: 8F3KMD2
           Mobo: Dell model: 0C2XKD v: A01 serial: .8F3KMD2.CN7016369P02U8.
           UEFI [Legacy]: Dell v: 3.4.1 date: 06/20/2017
           Chassis: type: 3 serial: 8F3KMD2
Battery    hidpp__0: charge: N/A condition: NA/NA Wh volts: NA
           model: Logitech K520 serial: 2011-eb-c7-98-6b status: Discharging
           hidpp__1: charge: N/A condition: NA/NA Wh volts: NA
           model: Logitech Wireless Mouse serial: 4055-e5-45-e2-83 status: Discharging
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i7-6700 (-HT-MCP-) arch: Skylake-S rev.3 cache: 8192 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 27264
           clock speeds: min/max: 800/4000 MHz 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3400 MHz 3: 3400 MHz 4: 3400 MHz 5: 3400 MHz
           6: 3400 MHz 7: 3400 MHz 8: 3400 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Tobago PRO [Radeon R7 360 / R9 360 OEM]
           bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:665f
           Display Server: X.Org 1.19.5 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz, 1920x1080@60.00hz
           OpenGL: renderer: AMD BONAIRE (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.13.0-1-amd64, LLVM 5.0.0)
           version: 4.5 Mesa 17.2.5 (compat-v: 3.0) Direct Render: Yes
Audio:     Card-1 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Tobago HDMI Audio [Radeon R7 360 / R9 360 OEM]
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:aac0
           Card-2 Intel Sunrise Point-H HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 chip-ID: 8086:a170
           Card-3 Logitech Webcam C270 driver: USB Audio usb-ID: 001-006 chip-ID: 046d:0825
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.13.0-1-amd64
Network:   Card-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168
           IF: enp2s0 state: down mac: 48:4d:7e:9f:4d:2f
           Card-2: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 / AR9565 Wireless Network Adapter
           driver: ath9k bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 168c:0036
           IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: 90:cd:b6:50:f6:2d
           Card-3: Atheros usb-ID: 001-007 chip-ID: 0cf3:e005
           IF: null-if-id state: N/A speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2000.4GB (11.9% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: ST2000DM001 size: 2000.4GB serial: Z4Z6SQWW temp: 38C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 40G used: 20G (54%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6
           ID-2: /home size: 868G used: 187G (23%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda11
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 17.18GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 51.5C mobo: 29.8C gpu: 51.0
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 822 fan-2: 804
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib
           deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
           deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/compiz-reloaded.list
           deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/stevenpusser:/compiz-reloaded/Debian_9.0/ /
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/qbittorrent.list
           deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/stevenpusser:/qbittorrent/Debian_9.0/ /
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
           deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
Info:      Processes: 233 Uptime: 1 day Memory: 2814.2/15994.1MB
           Init: systemd v: 236 runlevel: 5 default: 2 Gcc sys: 7.2.0 alt: 6
           Client: Shell (bash 4.4.121 running in mate-terminal) inxi: 2.3.45
~
dcihon
 
Posts: 197
Joined: 2012-09-23 16:18

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-12-30 13:43

^ I don't trust that Spotify repository, have you seen https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=3168?
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby pylkko » 2017-12-30 21:31

In my experience, when we are talking about a single install that is used for mostly unimportant stuff, and the user is more or less experienced with tweaking operating systems, it does not really matter what OS/distribution you are using. The only differences when moving from Debian to testing will be 1) more time will go into maintenance, and 2) security updates might be several weeks out of date compared to stable 3) more difficult to get support.

I used testing and sid for years and maybe twice I got into the situation where an update led to a non-bootable system. At least once the microcode was updated so that it required a UEFI update, and until I did that, it would not boot. Other than that, the machines were always usable. However, it was quite time consuming. For example, some software would rewrite the configuration files to default settings, so then I would have to manually re-edit them. Or at other times a program would no longer work with other packages and I had to uninstall it until it was also updated and would then reinstall it. These are really small things, but they might end up consuming more time than you would want to invest it it. If I had to guess the number one reason that power users have for going back to stable (if they ever do), I would bet it is "avoiding the hassle and time spent in tweaking the system all the time". On the other hand, if you have time to manually run several update commands daily (see above posts) like some do, then maybe you have time... hint: try automating it.

It will help if you know how to chroot a system, have some understanding of how to use the rescue shell, know how to mount a disk from a live system etc.

I don't think that testing is like Fedora, which after all, is a curated release, whereas testing is nothing, just a collection of packages.
User avatar
pylkko
 
Posts: 1281
Joined: 2014-11-06 19:02

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-12-30 21:50

pylkko wrote:security updates might be several weeks out of date compared to stable

^ This.

Also, most bug fixes are held up by the mandatory 10-14 day transition delay from sid → testing.

Unless the user wants to actively assist in Debian's management of the stable release then sid is probably a better choice and allows access to upstream bug fixes (including security-related issues) quicker.
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Lysander » 2018-01-02 09:25

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:^ I don't trust that Spotify repository


I'm curious as to why. I've been using that repo since Stretch 9.0.
User avatar
Lysander
 
Posts: 477
Joined: 2017-02-23 10:07
Location: London

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Ardouos » 2018-01-02 11:10

Lysander wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:^ I don't trust that Spotify repository


I'm curious as to why. I've been using that repo since Stretch 9.0.


On the page:

There is a Debian repository made available by the Spotify developers:

Spotify for Linux is released as a Debian package. Our aim is that it should work with the latest Long Term Support release of Ubuntu, but we will try to make it work for other releases of Ubuntu and Debian as well.


https://www.spotify.com/uk/download/linux/

However, this is a generalised package (ie, not built specifically for Debian jessie) and any mistakes on behalf of the repository maintainers have the potential to break the system completely.

Any custom repositories can also cause major problems if a `dist-upgrade` to the next release is attempted
User avatar
Ardouos
 
Posts: 985
Joined: 2013-11-03 00:30
Location: Elicoor II

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Lysander » 2018-01-02 11:20

Ardouos wrote:There is a Debian repository made available by the Spotify developers...

Any custom repositories can also cause major problems if a `dist-upgrade` to the next release is attempted


Sorry Wheeler, topic hijacked. I'll be out after this.

Arduous - I don't use dist-upgrade but your point is taken. It seems that Flatpak is now available from the stretch repo so I may use that instead. Thank you.

HoaS - you may want to update your post over on Bunsen?

--- end hijack ---
User avatar
Lysander
 
Posts: 477
Joined: 2017-02-23 10:07
Location: London

Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-01-02 17:32

Lysander wrote:It seems that Flatpak is now available from the stretch repo so I may use that instead. Thank you.

HoaS - you may want to update your post over on Bunsen?

Thanks but no, that guide is for the current release of BunsenLabs and we are still based on Debian jessie :)

We'll move to stretch after you guys have done a bit more testing for us :mrgreen:
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Next

Return to Offtopic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

fashionable