Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

If it doesn't relate to Debian, but you still want to share it, please do it here

Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby Supreme Ninja » 2018-01-08 02:40

Theo de Raadt said in the past about VirtualBox:

"Theo de Raadt wrote: A few of us just spent some time again debugging an application level problem ... and once again realized that the application was running on OpenBSD inside the Innobox's VirtualBox VM. Argh. http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/639 Sun owns InnoTek now because I think they wanted to VM product, but the product is badly broken. When that VM is running, we end up with bugs that make it quite clear that cpu registers are being corrupted in some instances. We do not know how other operating systems continue running when the userland ecx register gets clobbered on a return from a page fault, but at least people should be aware that there is likely some security risk from running that product. That VM does not emulate the x86 correctly, (either) ."

Reference: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?p=17930

"You've been smoking something really mind altering, and I think you should share it. x86 virtualization is about basically placing another nearly full kernel, full of new bugs, on top of a nasty x86 architecture which barely has correct page protection. Then running your operating system on the other side of this brand new pile of shit. You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a worldwide collection of software engineers who can not write operating systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes. You've seen something on the shelf, and it's all sorts of pretty colors, and you've bought it. That's all x86 virtualization is."

Reference: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=119318909016582

Theo de Raadt changed your opinion about virtual machines?

What is the opinion of Theo de Raadt about virtual machines?
Supreme Ninja
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 2017-12-11 22:57

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-01-08 06:00

You do know that OpenBSD now have their own native virtualisation layer, right?

http://man.openbsd.org/vmd

Not sure why I'm talking to a bot but anyway... :roll:
"Il semble que la perfection soit atteinte non quand il n'y a plus rien à ajouter, mais quand il n'y a plus rien à retrancher."
— Antoine de Saint Exupéry, Terre des Hommes (1939).
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7562
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-08 13:42

All it does is copy/paste quotes and material from other sites, it can not and will not respond intelligently. It can not actually write anything original. And it does not pass the "turing test".
The "clever bot", can be humorous to chat with, but this "supreme ninga" , and it's attempts are pathetic, it fails to be entertaining.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4814
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-08 14:08

I really don't understand people who use virtualisation at all. Why even bother running something in a VM? To look cool?
"Hey guys, look! I run my Windows inside my Linux, YOLO. Who cares about all the wasted resources and power. I don't pay the bills, my dad does."
Use an OS that fits your needs best. Don't be a "fake" that tries to be cool because he needs another OS to be productive.
User avatar
Wheelerof4te
 
Posts: 999
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby Bloom » 2018-01-08 14:39

I use Debian exclusively at home, but I do run Windows 7 in a VirtualBox VM for exactly two purposes:
1. I have a Logitech Harmony One Plus universal remote control which can only be configured from Windows (no, not from Wine).
2. For my work, my employer forces me to use Windows 7 (soon Win10) for telework. I can't even connect to the company's VPN if I'm not running "the only 100% secure operating system that is Windows 7 and higher" and another requirement is that I have to run Windows Defender as my anti-malware solution. No other product is allowed. Cool huh?

The minute those two purposes don't require Windows anymore, those VM's will be deleted with much glee.
And no, I don't think it' s cool to run Windows. Quite the opposite.
Finally, I pay my own bills.
User avatar
Bloom
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 2017-11-11 12:23

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-08 16:12

I use QEMO for my VM's , I prefer it to multi boot, the problem with multi boot,
you can only boot 1 system at a time. With the VM , I can boot with my main system, (OpenBsd), and then if I want , for example to run Debian, as well,
and some times I need that, to refer to, in relations to questions here, I can have the Debian system running as well.
Then there is the Minix VM as well, and it is handy to have it running, that way when I want to do anything with it, I can, with out having to reboot.

Image

To look cool?

Has nothing to do with it, but in hot weather, I do keep a fan running, to keep
myself kool, and my hardware as well.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4814
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GalaxyJupiter001 » 2018-01-08 16:35

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:You do know that OpenBSD now have their own native virtualisation layer, right?

http://man.openbsd.org/vmd

Not sure why I'm talking to a bot but anyway... :roll:


Why OpenBSD now have their own native virtualisation layer?

Why Theo de Raadt changed your opinion about virtual machines?

What is the current opinion of Theo de Raadt about virtual machines?

Head_on_a_Stick, please answer, I ask these questions because I like the subject and I do not want to program and use computer based on pathetic facts
GalaxyJupiter001
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 2018-01-08 16:26

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-08 19:51

@GalaxyJupiter001
You could just copy/paste the questions into a search engine, and get a lot of information on this subject. Read it, instead of just copy/pasting what you see to other sites.
Why don't you do that ?

I like the subject and I do not want to program and use computer based on pathetic facts

This does not make sense, facts are important, and if you are interested in the subject, why not do some real research, and read some thing ?
Why do you keep failing the turing test ? are you broken ?
This should be interesting to see the response.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4814
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GalaxyJupiter001 » 2018-01-08 20:36

GarryRicketson wrote:

This does not make sense, facts are important, and if you are interested in the subject, why not do some real research, and read some thing ?


Because I did not find the answers on the web.

References:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Why+OpenBSD+now+ha ... n+layer%3F

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Why+Theo+de+Raadt+ ... achines%3F

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+the+curren ... achines%3F
GalaxyJupiter001
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 2018-01-08 16:26

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby pcalvert » 2018-01-08 20:51

GarryRicketson wrote:All it does is copy/paste quotes and material from other sites, it can not and will not respond intelligently. It can not actually write anything original. And it does not pass the "turing test".

The "bot" seems rather interactive here:
HR department requires knowledge absurd

Phil
“Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good
in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become
rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.”
— Abraham Lincoln
pcalvert
 
Posts: 1778
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:19
Location: Sol Sector

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-08 21:05

I'm surprised these bots exist. I'm even more surprised that this site is supceptible to them.
User avatar
Wheelerof4te
 
Posts: 999
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-08 21:25

They do, key words :
Code: Select all
 AI bots on forums , AI troll bots

AI bots on forums , AI troll bots
This site is pretty easy for a bot to register to, and when it gets banned, it just registers again, using a new user name, e-mail, etc.
The answers to the questions are all going to vary, and none will be exactly correct, it is like someone asking Why does the sun rise in the morning and set in the evening ? What is your opinion of the way things are ?
Who knows why Theo de Raadt changed your opinion ? ( He didn't change my opinion, so it does not apply ),.... Any way, yes the AI bots exist, and they do
go around posting anywhere they can,
There are some methods that prevent them from being able to register, that go way beyond just a normal captcha. But that would be another "off topic" topic, and I don't think very many members here would have much interest.
Besides that, it is not convenient to go into details on that on a public forum.
If the bot writers knew how we catch and block them, they modify the scripts
to get around it.
Can any body here really answer the OP's questions ? I doubt it, I do wonder
what made it think some one here could answer.
==== edit ========
One thing that makes them really noticeable is that they do not seem to be able to tell when the kind of posts they are making really are not appropriate
or wanted on a forum,... even in the "off topic" boards. Which is why they end up getting banned almost every where they go. They fail the "turing test".
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2018-01-08 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4814
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GalaxyJupiter001 » 2018-01-08 21:30

Wheelerof4te wrote:I'm surprised these bots exist. I'm even more surprised that this site is supceptible to them.


I am human!
GalaxyJupiter001
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 2018-01-08 16:26

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-08 21:35

GarryRicketson wrote: Can any body here really answer the OP's questions ? I doubt it, I do wonder
what made it think some one here could answer.


"What made it think?" Okay I don't know about thinking, But the intent may not be to get questions answered, but to disrupt or troll the forum itself, or to seed data or content/links onto the forum for whatever reason.

http://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/2554 ... _Stop_Them
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/ ... forum.html

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=forum+disruption+troll
User avatar
bw123
 
Posts: 3081
Joined: 2011-05-09 06:02
Location: TN_USA

Re: Theo de Raadt and virtual machines

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-08 23:46

But the intent may not be to get questions answered, but to disrupt or troll the forum itself, or to seed data or content/links onto the forum for whatever reason.

It could also just be some AI bot script writer experimenting, wanting to see if others notice that it is a bot, I suppose it also could be some one with some
rather severe handicap, and learning disability, in which case I truly feel sorry for them.
There are even competitions, where they create these AI bots, send them out,
and the winner is the one that makes the most posts, on the most forums , before they get spotted. I don't have the link handy to where I read about that,
stumbled onto it in some searches, but did not save it.
Some website/forum admins even use them to make it appear there is a high traffic volume, and higher post count , when a Domain name and website / forum has a high SEO rating it becomes more valuable, commercial and marketing businesses are often eager to buy the domain name, if it has a high ranking, but any way I don't think that is what is going on here.
Any way, this topic is really wandering, and after all said and done, no problem , no matter if it is human or bot, as long as it stays "civil" and is not spam, (as far as I am concerened, admins and mods might see it differently).
so :
Post by Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-08 08:08
I really don't understand people who use virtualisation at all.

I didn't mention earlier, but Virtual servers are very common now a days,
1 hard drive, can have 100's of virtual disks, each one being a server, people rent the servers and set up their websites,etc, or what ever they want to do with the server.
For example, on my supposedly "useless" system , I have 3 servers running, they are all virtual, On a big machine, a "mainframe" system, 100's or more of virtual servers can be running, .......... snooze
===== edited =======
Fell asleep there for a few seconds,..
These might be of interest:
https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10-things/10-benefits-of-virtualization-in-the-data-center/
Use less physical hardware and you generate less heat. Generate less heat in your data center and a host of issues go away.

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-08 08:08
I really don't understand people who use virtualisation at all. Why even bother running something in a VM? To look cool?

To "look cool" no, but to stay cool, yes.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Information_Technology/Virtualization
There is a ton more information on this if one does a search, key words:
Code: Select all
Who uses virtualization, Virtual servers, etc
User avatar
GarryRicketson
 
Posts: 4814
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Next

Return to Offtopic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

fashionable