After the fact stories

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After the fact stories

Postby golinux » 2018-01-09 17:35

Just for giggles I'm going to post this since I searched and it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere on this forum. Sure, it's more than a bit juvenile and about run its course. I rarely go there - it's a bit like too much chocolate mousse. But . . . there are legitimate admins who have stories that will make you scratch your head and wonder just how/why Debian turned on a dime to take a ride on the systemd merry-go-round.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-09 18:30

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=135794#p662759
This is one horse beaten to death with small spoons. It's hard to develop standards when anyone can make a standard for himself.

Too many strawmen, too little developer cohesion.


one dead horse
standards
too little developer cohesion

Solution? Don't know, but systemd proved to be on the right track.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-01-09 18:51

This is funny ,
but systemd proved to be on the right track

In what way, ? It proved to be on the wrong track , did not work well when I try it. Hoping it would get better at Debian 9, and it got worse. It seems to be proving to be on the wrong track. Except for Windows users, they seem to like it.
Solution?
There are other choices that do not use systemd
fortunately.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby RU55EL » 2018-01-09 22:26

Another systemd thread????? Please lock this thread!

systemd threads that only reflect "disappointment" should be automatically locked!

[/edit]

There are "systemd is bad" threads ad nausium.

[/rant mode: ON]

New thought:

There are people that hate systemd, there are people that like systemd, and there are people that are sick of other people bitching about how they hate systemd.

[/rant mode: OFF]

[/edit]
Last edited by RU55EL on 2018-01-10 04:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby golinux » 2018-01-09 23:26

Ah . . . the thought police. Pravda did that for a long time and much of the press elsewhere does also but truth will out!!!
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby VentGrey » 2018-01-10 02:44

It's the same that I said before, there are a lot of people that hate systemd aaaaaaand there are a lot of people that like systemd too.

But again, if you don't like systemd simply don't use it, if you don't like Debian with systemd there is Devuan, antiX, MXLinux and more, if you don't use Debian there's always Slackware, Gentoo, PcLOS and so on, choice is everywhere. :mrgreen:
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby debiman » 2018-01-10 07:48

really? again?
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Seventh » 2018-01-10 08:02

I rather use runit, so much simpler than that pile o shite called systemd.

Yep debiman, again.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby steve_v » 2018-01-10 08:56

debiman wrote:really? again?

It keeps coming back, so clearly some are still not happy with systemd. Can't say I blame them.

Seventh wrote:so much simpler than that pile o shite called systemd.
Anything is simpler than that over-engineered monstrosity.

I still maintain that piling every imaginable daemon into a single inscrutable blob and running that as PID1 is a terrible idea.
Sooner or later this excessive complexity is going to bite everyone, and in the meantime I don't see any payoff at all for the change. A 2 second faster boot doesn't count.
But hey, it's all been said before and nobody listened, so there's little point repeating it.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Lysander » 2018-01-10 10:55

golinux wrote:Ah . . . the thought police.


I like this tactic. Any time someone proposes a viewpoint contrary to mine, or promotes a different opinion based on experience, need or some other valid preference, I'll just self-victimise and accuse them of treating me like a thought-criminal. Nothing to do with the fact that they might actually have a valid argument in their own personal context.

I am not the biggest fan of systemd either. I run one non-systemd OS and am considering moving from Debian too [systemd is not the only reason, I should add]. systemd has crashed on me many times before [again just yesterday] - but I will still encourage healthy debate when there is a basis for it.

Though I am a proponent of free speech, telling someone that they are the "thought police" is naive and justifiably bring calls for a lock to the fore since there is a large potential for the thread to quickly descend into nothing but unproductive backbiting. Even to accuse someone of policing thoughtcrime is exactly the kind of problem we want to work against.

If you wanted to present a structured, considered argument about a specific, vital issue that brings something new to the table, that would have been more intellectually profitable to FDN. Instead, dropping in a link to an anti-systemd Twitter page is baiting, poor form, and someone with your long-term forum record should know better.

To that end, insert patronising-but-true meme:

Image

golinux wrote:Sure, it's more than a bit juvenile and about run its course. I rarely go there - it's a bit like too much chocolate mousse.


So you knew you shouldn't post it but you did anyway. It's tantamount to trolling.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Seventh » 2018-01-10 11:18

Why are folks so butt hurt that someone else dislikes systemd and posts some funny factual links in regards to it? Remember free speech? or should this thread just get shut down like a fascist would shut down dissent in real life! This goes for fascists on both sides of the argument, left / right/ stupid!

Dissent: "the holding or expression of opinions at variance with those commonly or officially held." :shock:
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby RU55EL » 2018-01-10 16:17

RU55EL wrote:There are people that hate systemd, there are people that like systemd, and there are people that are sick of other people bitching about how they hate systemd.


Let me rephrase that.

There are people that hate sytemd.

There are people that don't hate systemd.

There are people that hate people that bitch about systemd for the sake of bitching.

And.

There are people that hate when other people bitch about them bitching about systemd.

It would be nice if this was a technical discussion concerning systemd, good or bad, but that is not how the thread was started. Starting a thread with the sole purpose of griping about systemd has been done ad nauseam. Nothing new here!
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-01-10 16:45

I really don't like the complexity and massive code base of systemd so I dual-boot OpenBSD & Alpine Linux on my laptop; I do have an Arch Linux chroot in Alpine for games that won't work with musl libc but systemd isn't even installed in that :D

Having said that though, I do miss some of systemd's lovely features, most especially the sublime logging — contrary to popular bullshit the binary logs can be read directly with strings(1) and then processed with grep & awk & sed (oh my!) but journalctl can also be used to analyse logs in a mounted filesystem for recovery purposes and the conveniences it affords really do help in a tight spot.

I would also like to mention that unlike anybody else in this thread I have actually dealt directly with Mr. Poettering and I found him to be rather excellent and not the monster often portrayed; see for yourself:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6684

The bug was fixed very quickly indeed :)
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby golinux » 2018-01-10 16:47

RU55EL wrote:It would be nice if this was a technical discussion concerning systemd, good or bad . . .
There have been many technical discussions over the years long before the GR. The debate fell on deaf ears and was grounds for a warning/ban on debian-user at least. So I thought real life experiences after-the-fact might be more instructive. Yes, there are illuminating nuggets at that link mixed in with the adolescent systemd bashing.
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Re: After the fact stories

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-10 17:09

^There is no need for that anymore. Maybe it was before Devuan, and before Antix/MX Linux became more popular. Now, if you don't like systemd, just use those distros and leave people of this forum alone.
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