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After the fact stories

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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steve_v
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Re: After the fact stories

#61 Post by steve_v »

Actually, I just installed Artix. It's been a long while since I've run an Arch box, and I wasn't really looking for something so bleeding-edge. But bloody-hell, it's nice. :)
The installer is a bit meh, and the default setup is the most barebones LXQT I've ever seen, but I now have Plasma 5.11 and everything else I want running flawlessly. Elogind appears to solve the crapkit related problems I was having on Devuan too.
No gripes at all TBH, openrc took a little getting used to but I'm beginning to like it more than sysv. I haven't found anything that doesn't work as expected, but time will tell how much of a pain eternal updates are.
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golinux
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Re: After the fact stories

#62 Post by golinux »

steve_v wrote:Elogind appears to solve the crapkit related problems I was having on Devuan too.
If you'd stuck around or done any research over at Devuan you would have found that elogind is on our radar. I imagine it will be functional by the time ascii is released. Not that I'm suggesting you go that direction. It seems your basic approach is at odds with what we do there. Happy computing to you wherever you land!
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steve_v
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Re: After the fact stories

#63 Post by steve_v »

Thing is, ascii is still broken WRT DEs, and being based on a 2.5 year old Debian release, and one that was typically debian-stable old when it was released, makes jessie a non-starter if one wants to run modern applications.
I don't want new-and-shiny, but some software I need expects non-fossilised libraries. So I can't run jessie on my desktop, and I can't run my desktop on ascii.
When (if ever) a Devuan stable is released within a reasonable timeframe of Debian stable, that 'll be a different story.

As for elogind & ascii, "on our radar" is fine, but it simply reaffirms my statement that ascii is not ready for desktop use yet. When it's actually implemented I'll likely revise that assesment, meanwhile nothing that uses systemd-logind interfaces is going to work, and that means the big DEs. The logind problem has been known about for a long time now.

Like I said, I'm still running it for server applications, jessie is fine there.
I'd probably have stuck around the Devuan forum if it hadn't gone down in the middle of trying to get Plasma working. dev1galaxy.org is still down as of this post. :roll:

Meanwhile, I have a fully operational systemd-free distro here, with 3 init systems to choose from and all the usual bells and whistles one expects on a modern desktop.
Until you guys get your act together, I'll run that. Shame it's not Debian based.
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golinux
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Re: After the fact stories

#64 Post by golinux »

steve_v wrote:I'd probably have stuck around the Devuan forum if it hadn't gone down in the middle of trying to get Plasma working. dev1galaxy.org is still down as of this post. :roll:
It hasn't been down here and I'm on there all day everyday. Neither has monit posted a notice that it was down. I guess it just wasn't meant to be for you . . .

PS. The Devuan IRC channels are a good way to get help too.
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steve_v
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Re: After the fact stories

#65 Post by steve_v »

golinux wrote:It hasn't been down here and I'm on there all day everyday.
On further investigation, it's reachable if I proxy into the US but not over my local connection. No issues with anything else, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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golinux
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Re: After the fact stories

#66 Post by golinux »

steve_v wrote:
golinux wrote:It hasn't been down here and I'm on there all day everyday.
On further investigation, it's reachable if I proxy into the US but not over my local connection. No issues with anything else, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What does it have to do with the US? It's hosted in France.
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steve_v
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Re: After the fact stories

#67 Post by steve_v »

golinux wrote:What does it have to do with the US? It's hosted in France.
No idea, all I said is that it is reachable from there, but not from here.
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Re: After the fact stories

#68 Post by ralph.ronnquist »

dev1galaxy.org is equipped with a sometimes over-zealous "snaplock", which eagerly blocks any IP with activity it deems dubious. This might be a bother e.g. if your IP is dynamic, and it has got blocked due to a prior holder's activity. Send me an email or PM with your IP (or IP range) and I'll have a look.

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golinux
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Re: After the fact stories

#69 Post by golinux »

ralph.ronnquist wrote:dev1galaxy.org is equipped with a sometimes over-zealous "snaplock", which eagerly blocks any IP with activity it deems dubious. This might be a bother e.g. if your IP is dynamic, and it has got blocked due to a prior holder's activity. Send me an email or PM with your IP (or IP range) and I'll have a look.
Ha, I had the same thought and was going to request the same when I finally got out of bed!
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Re: After the fact stories

#70 Post by golinux »

Wheelerof4te wrote:Solution? Don't know, but systemd proved to be on the right track.
Did it? Please have a look at this which sums things up nicely.

As to his assessment that this was democracy in action . . . that has been thoroughly debunked by dasein's Combatting revisionist history. One of the best reads ever . . .
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steve_v
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Re: After the fact stories

#71 Post by steve_v »

ralph.ronnquist wrote:dev1galaxy.org is equipped with a sometimes over-zealous "snaplock", which eagerly blocks any IP with activity it deems dubious.
That'll be it. I have since changed IP, and can reach the site again. Dunno what I did to suddenly rate as "dubious" while trying to set up Devuan, but there must have been something as I'd had that IP for about 2 weeks prior.
Might want to look into your false-positive rate there.
golinux wrote:Did it?
I'd say that systemd has proved itself to work reasonably well on the systemd devs laptops, nothing more.
As for everyone else, especially those running servers, it's been a constant source of aggravation.
There plenty of examples of systemd screwing up systems without warning, and It's done it to me several times.
But I'm clearly preaching to the choir here. :P
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Re: After the fact stories

#72 Post by pcalvert »

I've been using (in a VM) Debian Jessie, and now Stretch, that has never had systemd-sysv installed on it. I am using sysvinit-core and sysvinit-utils instead. The desktop environment is Xfce. So far it has been working fine (no major issues). Yes, systemd-shim and some other systemd-related packages are also installed, but I see that as an acceptable compromise (for now). However, I may switch to Devuan in a few years after it has matured some more.

Phil

P.S. My main system is Devuan Jessie which I'll be replacing in the near future with Debian Stretch (minus systemd-sysv).
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Re: After the fact stories

#73 Post by golinux »

pcalvert wrote:P.S. My main system is Devuan Jessie which I'll be replacing in the near future with Debian Stretch (minus systemd-sysv).
Why not just upgrade to ascii? We're not that far off from an official ascii release. One of the benefits is that eudev replaces the udev hairball. And elongind is now out for testing. Perhaps you'd consider giving that a try before jumping ship.
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Re: After the fact stories

#74 Post by pcalvert »

golinux wrote:Why not just upgrade to ascii? We're not that far off from an official ascii release.
The system in question started its life as aptosid apate that was dist-upgraded to Debian Squeeze. I feel that it is now time to wipe the partition and start over with a "clean slate." Since I already have a customized Debian live CD, it is less work to install using that.

Phil
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n_hologram
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Re: After the fact stories

#75 Post by n_hologram »

pcalvert wrote:aptosid apate
Lolwut?
Is that a Harry Potter spell?
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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Re: After the fact stories

#76 Post by Mad_7 »

n_hologram wrote:
pcalvert wrote:aptosid apate
Lolwut?
Is that a Harry Potter spell?
:-)
Indeed! :-)

Aptosid is an abandoned distro.
Απάτη (apate) means scam.
It was it's last release name.
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CraigHB
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Re: After the fact stories

#77 Post by CraigHB »

Hi guys, first post here.

I've been away from Debian and Linux since Etch. I'm back working with Jessie. Systemd feels like a really big change to me after the old familiar sysvinit I know so well. Fortunately I found I don't ~have~ to use it. It's possible to preseed the installer to use sysvinit instead; https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Install ... ut_systemd I'm happy the option is there.

I hope the Debian developers make this a more up front choice in the future. Seems there's enough people that prefer Sysvinit to keep it going and make it a more obvious option. A forced change to systemd feels proprietary.

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Re: After the fact stories

#78 Post by Mad_7 »

CraigHB wrote:Hi guys, first post here.
Welcome aboard CraigHB! :D
CraigHB wrote:Hi guys, first post here.
It's possible to preseed the installer to use sysvinit instead; https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Install ... ut_systemd I'm happy the option is there.
If you're trying to install Debian without systemd, consider also the possibility installing Devuan from the beginning: https://devuan.org/index.html#download.

Personally I didn't it, because when I choose to get rid of the systemd abomination, I was already at a fully-working Jessie installation.
What I did, is following the instructions there: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... stallation.
This way, I was unable to uninstall systemd, but I installed Sysvinit and continue with it. Systemd is always an option at GRUB advanced settings, for the (highly unlike) possibility, to work with it.
Of course, you can delete this (useless) GRUB entry! :D
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Re: After the fact stories

#79 Post by golinux »

Mad_7 wrote:If you're trying to install Debian without systemd, consider also the possibility installing Devuan from the beginning: https://devuan.org/index.html#download.

Personally I didn't it, because when I choose to get rid of the systemd abomination, I was already at a fully-working Jessie installation.
Debian without systemd enabled is quite different than Devuan without systemd. There is a lot of confusion about what constitutes systemd-free which the sub-topic in this thread attempts to clarify.

@Mad_7 . . . Are you aware that it is possible to upgrade from Debian to Devuan? Many users have come to Devuan that way.
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Re: After the fact stories

#80 Post by Mad_7 »

golinux wrote:Debian without systemd enabled is quite different than Devuan without systemd. There is a lot of confusion about what constitutes systemd-free which the sub-topic in this thread attempts to clarify.
Oh...I see!
My personal experience, is that when I was installing a package (I use Synaptic. with console output enabled), systemd config files was installing also, (throwing out error messages in the process, because systemd wasn't enabled) and autostarting wasn't possible out of the box and I had to do it manually (if I was in need, for that).
golinux wrote: @Mad_7 . . . Are you aware that it is possible to upgrade from Debian to Devuan? Many users have come to Devuan that way.
Actually I'm waiting for the ASCII (stable) release , but I can always try! :D
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