Getting rid of Windows

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Getting rid of Windows

Postby technosinga » 2018-01-24 06:08

Often I come across postings about getting rid of Windows and replacing it with Debian. But its getting rid of Windows which have been installed and which we have paid for. In the process, we may run into all sorts of technical difficulties. Why not stop Windows from being installed on the machine we purchase? Why can't we consumers have a right to choose what OS we want on our machine at the point of purchase? Is it not against the law of monopoly to have a machine installed with MS OS only?
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-01-24 06:40

technosinga wrote:Why can't we consumers have a right to choose what OS we want on our machine at the point of purchase?

I did :)

I saved £80 on my last laptop by purchasing it without an operating system installed.

It came with a trial version of Windows 7 installed, irritatingly, but at least I got to `dd` it out of existence :twisted:
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby deborah-and-ian » 2018-01-24 07:01

Sometimes, as here in Germany, the really big stores that have the most competitive prices will only have machines preinstalled with Windows. I guess a lot of people think they did themselves a service when they saved 100€ on their purchase by buying there, but in the end, they would have been much happier paying for an after market machine at another store that cost e.g. 500€, had no OS and is maybe 2 generations old, than buying an equally priced plastic piece of crap from the shelf for the same price. My next purchases will be after market laptops, preferably a Thinkpad with Libreboot. The beefy 2000€+ machines of today are the cheap and refurbished ones of the future. They will have been leftovers in this society which thinks machines should be made in huge bulks to satisfy every consumer's hunger. You get to buy them when all the BIOS kinks have been worked out and patched and when you can be sure that Debian will work out of the box.

I know that this solution is not really great for people who really need modern feature foo that only exists in latest hardware bar, but in that case, there is a growing number of vendors offering current machines with Linux preinstalled. They tend to be ridiculously priced sometimes, which I don't understand whether it has to do with them being smaller companies not able to sell them for a cheaper price or just with the fact that they are trying to milk money off the niche status Linux still has.
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby technosinga » 2018-01-24 07:27

Head_on_a_Stick,

It is a rare store that does it ? Most stores in your country or town would be selling machines with Windows installed, right?
In your case, do you have to make special arrangement with the store to have Linux installed?
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby technosinga » 2018-01-24 07:38

deborah-and-ian,

So you have to buy an old machine. That brings up a point. Its not the stores but the manufacturers which have Windows as default in the machines they ship to the stores.

For the same hardware, Linux-based machine should be cheaper if it is not only loaded with the OS but also apps software. Imagine a machine you can take home and start using for document, image and video processing, or set up an online store, without adding a single cent more to software cost.

Its hard for Linux to become as commonly used as MS OS if manufacturers continue to be allowed to load their machines with the latter. Can't they be stopped by law?
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby Innovate » 2018-01-24 10:36

technosinga wrote:Why can't we consumers have a right to choose what OS we want on our machine at the point of purchase?

Are you going to say laptop shop on your region never sale any blank laptop?
And have you forgot about Dell laptop they pre-install linux?
I can't recall Asus that I bought pre-install any OS.
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby n_hologram » 2018-01-24 12:31

Imagine a machine you can take home and start using for document, image and video processing, or set up an online store, without adding a single cent more to software cost.

"Imagine a refurbished laptop..."
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-24 12:56

by technosinga »Is it not against the law of monopoly to have a machine installed with MS OS only?


Supposedly, in the US , any way, "monopolies" are illegal, but both Microsoft and Intel, are above and beyond the laws.
There have been lawsuits filed against them both, but they all ways weasel out, and get around it.
A long time ago, but nobody remembers , PC.s did not come with anything installed, all though they did come with some installation disks, usually. Actually
my first PC did not even come with any installation disks, but I had bought it at a flea market , used.
It is very hard, but not impossible to find laptop, or PC 's with nothing pre installed.
The newer ones, are difficult, Microsoft and Intel deliberately have made it that way,.. so I look for older ones, I don't care if they have MS malware installed or not, the first thing I do is format the HD and get rid of it all.
People need to learn to "Just Say NO ", to MS and Intel, but sadly the majority of the consumers have all been completely brainwashed, and just like drug addicts, they actually believe they can not have a usable system with out MS, Windows, and Intel being involved. They all ways have their excuses, as to why they MUST have Windows, sad situation.
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby Thorny » 2018-01-24 14:47

GarryRicketson wrote:...
A long time ago, but nobody remembers , PC.s did not come with anything installed, all though they did come with some installation disks, usually.

What do you mean nobody remembers? I certainly do, I also remember before there were PCs. And, I'm pretty sure there are other members around here who are old enough to remember. Granted, a lot of posters probably don't even remember before there was colour TV.
We can chuckle, eh Garry?
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-24 16:51

I contacted my local school board rep a few years ago. The children really needed some technology. There was discussion of tablets, classroom computers for state testing, how to pay for it all, and what it would cost.

I begged the nice lady not to go with a solution that would require constant upgrade of hardware and software, or expose the children to constant advertising in their lessons. Children should be educated, not indoctrinated to be 'consumers' by their devices.

I warned her about large technology companies that produce software that becomes obsolete very quickly. I asked her to make sure she figured in the upgrades of both hardware and software, and the tech support and infrastructure that a solution would require.

I sent her some information about linux, but I think the whole idea of using a 'free' os really just made me sound flaky. They have big needs that they want to solve by throwing money at it, it's the American Way...
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-01-24 17:33

technosinga wrote:It is a rare store that does it ?

I used https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ and they have an OS checkbox that can be de-selected, I think this saves over £100 with Win10 :D
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby n_hologram » 2018-01-24 18:02

bw123 wrote:I contacted my local school board rep a few years ago...
I begged the nice lady not to go with a solution that would require constant upgrade of hardware and software, or expose the children to constant advertising in their lessons. Children should be educated, not indoctrinated to be 'consumers' by their devices...
They have big needs that they want to solve by throwing money at it, it's the American Way...

This is such a nightmare in America right now. "One-to-one" instruction -- that is, every student is assigned a tablet or laptop -- is pitched as a glorious, student-driven learning framework. In reality, you end up teaching the same concepts as you would with paper, pencil, and books, since state test "accountability" moots genuine research. Consequently, the electronic device becomes a useless supplement. And no one's paid to care, so they don't.
On the other hand, Google and Microsoft love it.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing

the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-24 18:18

n_hologram wrote:This is such a nightmare in America right now. "One-to-one" instruction -- that is, every student is assigned a tablet or laptop -- is pitched as a glorious, student-driven learning framework.


It wasn't just a nightmare for me, it broke my heart! They built a very nice school out here. We are a very old an isolated rural community. We are all very proud of the fine school.

But a few months after the new school opened, this little 2nd grade girl came to my door trying to sell candy bars to raise money to build the playground.

They did not have one swing, teeter-totter, or even kickballs for the kids to play with in the brand new multimillion dollar school.

Whay are we spending all this money this way? Are we insane?
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby RU55EL » 2018-01-24 18:25

I have always built desktop computers from separately purchased components. Unfortunately, for years I used Microsoft's OS. That has changed, I now use Debian. The most recent computer purchases that I've made have been Intel NUCs, which are available without operating systems. Also, the wifi card (on the models that I have) can be purchased and installed separately. That enables me to purchase wifi cards that don't require non-free software. It is really nice to purchase the hardware, assemble the machine, and install Debian without any problems or need for non-free firmware.

I guess the subject of this thread has more to do with notebook computers which are more difficult to find without Windows. In the US, at lease, you can basically return the OS and get a refund from Microsoft for a computer that you purchased with Windows. But, of course, I'm sure that you will have to wait for a check and it is probably made as difficult as legally possible to discourage you.

The next new notebook computer I purchase will not have Windows pre-installed. Although, with the number of computers that I currently have, that may not be for a long, long, time.
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Re: Getting rid of Windows

Postby hrsetrdr » 2018-01-24 19:11

technosinga wrote:Often I come across postings about getting rid of Windows and replacing it with Debian. But its getting rid of Windows which have been installed and which we have paid for. In the process, we may run into all sorts of technical difficulties. Why not stop Windows from being installed on the machine we purchase? Why can't we consumers have a right to choose what OS we want on our machine at the point of purchase? Is it not against the law of monopoly to have a machine installed with MS OS only?


A few years ago people balked at paying the "Widows tax", here in the U.S. that effort wasn't very successful. See this article.

I recently bought bought a Dell 15 7000 laptop with Windows 10. I immediately blew the Win 10 off, installed Fedora 27 and did not bat an eye, over the Windows garbage I might have wasted money towards.

It used to be that you could buy a Dell laptop directly from Dell, and they would give you the choice of Windows, Linux or no OS. I don't think that's the case anymore.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein).
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