Cambridge Analytica

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby pawRoot » 2018-03-20 20:25

Wheelerof4te wrote:Wait, so it's fine if they collect data from millions of people, but it's very bad if someone uses that data to "influence" elections, or voting in general.


All the left is butthurt about Trump winning the election since day one, they won't let it go :mrgreen: .
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby n_hologram » 2018-03-20 20:50

Is everyone seriously going to pretend that Ted Cruz didn't try this platform two years ago?

This is not news.

https://www.npr.org/2016/02/19/46739521 ... next-level

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby debiman » 2018-03-21 07:08

this is not about trump or any one particular politician or party in any one particular country.
hell, it's not even about mark zuckerberg.
of course facebook was the platform and willingly turned a blind eye, but really it's about the people who are willing to pay for services like this (yes, the same ones that promise YOU that they have your best interests in mind) and those willing to provide them.

i truly hope we get more news like this, because as long as companies abuse it like they do, the internet needs more rules.

btw, there's interesting articles cropping up now about the guy who blew the whistle on this one.

anyone who says "i don't know what evryone is so upset about" will probably continue saying so right up until human-induced apocalypse.
when they finally realize there was something to get upset about, they won't be able to utter the words anymore because there's only one million oxygen masks for 10 billion people...
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby n_hologram » 2018-03-21 10:27

My point was that the same issue was present before possible election meddling -- the writing has been on the walls for years, dating back to the 2010 xkcd comic I posted earlier. It usually takes mishandling or outright breakage for the public to even listen, and even then, action isn't promised.

There is only one difference catalysing this case: ties to the president. And if screenshots from die-hard responses to political criticism still ring as true as they did last week/year/decade, it's entirely plausible to assume that the president's entire fanbase (as with most political fanbases) now believes there is absolutely no truth in the issue. (And I think it's also plausible to assume that Facebook will the the medium through which they express this.) We're kind of an objective sounding-board here; it's a different world on Surveillancebook.

My favourite pastime is asking people if they're interested in selling their own money to companies, instead of letting Facebook. They'll think you're lying.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby ticojohn » 2018-03-21 13:28

I have been previously chastised about making political comments on this board. I thinks this post has gotten too political and posters should refrain from linking political figures to the obvious abuse of power/wealth by Mr. Zuckerberg and company.
I'm not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-03-21 13:34

^I agree with you, Mark is the bigger problem and the US media is just using this story to blast the current US president instead of focusing on Mark.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby Lysander » 2018-03-21 13:39

debiman wrote:this is not about trump or any one particular politician or party in any one particular country.
hell, it's not even about mark zuckerberg.
of course facebook was the platform and willingly turned a blind eye, but really it's about the people who are willing to pay for services like this (yes, the same ones that promise YOU that they have your best interests in mind) and those willing to provide them.

i truly hope we get more news like this, because as long as companies abuse it like they do, the internet needs more rules


Indeed, though I do question if these latest events will make any difference to peoples' usage of SM. People are addicated and though some will delete their FB accounts in protest, many just find themselves literally unable to leave SM, which is its raison d'etre. It is designed to suck the user in and have them disclose as much about themselves as possible.

n_hologram wrote:My point was that the same issue was present before possible election meddling -- the writing has been on the walls for years, dating back to the 2010 xkcd comic I posted earlier. It usually takes mishandling or outright breakage for the public to even listen, and even then, action isn't promised.


Yes, further to my above point, election-fiddling has been part of the agenda for years, it's not going to change anytime soon. The Russian elections, the Turkish ones, the US ones and even the last UK election was won by questionable means. Attaining power is - if I can make such a generalisation - done by manipulation, stealth, cheating and screwing people over.

ticojohn wrote:I have been previously chastised about making political comments on this board. I thinks this post has gotten too political and posters should refrain from linking political figures to the obvious abuse of power/wealth by Mr. Zuckerberg and company.


Facebook is only as important as its influence. It was very likely able to influence the outcome of a national election, so it's relevant - and important - to discuss it. Ultimately though, I expect the whole thing to blow over with very little resultant impact.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby bw123 » 2018-03-21 13:46

What I don't understand is why this has a sudden presence all over the media? Also I don't understand the logic of people who give their "private" information to someone, and then act surprised that it's not "private" anymore, wtf?

I think fb has a right to use whatever info is voluntarily provided to them anyway they want, as long as it is legal? Anything that someone posts, routes through, or otherwise puts on MY system I will use anyway I see fit. That's the way it always has been, things you post on the internet are *not* private.

I haven't seen any evidence yet that any harm was done? They targeted some ads to people, goes on all the time...
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby ticojohn » 2018-03-21 13:52

Lysander wrote:Facebook is only as important as its influence. It was very likely able to influence the outcome of a national election, so it's relevant - and important - to discuss it. Ultimately though, I expect the whole thing to blow over with very little resultant impact.

I agree that we should discuss the aspects of the influence of these companies, and how they can affect our way of life. Just saying that referring to specific political figures and how they may or may not have used data mining to achieve their specific objectives may not be appropriate. But I am not the one monitoring posts on this board. So have at it!
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby Lysander » 2018-03-21 13:53

bw123 wrote:What I don't understand is why this has a sudden presence all over the media? Also I don't understand the logic of people who give their "private" information to someone, and then act surprised that it's not "private" anymore, wtf?


Who is surprised? As far as I understand it, everyone now knows this is the case, grudgingly accepts it and then the posting continues. Everyone knows their data is mined these days, but they don't care enough to do anything about it.

bw123 wrote:I think fb has a right to use whatever info is voluntarily provided to them anyway they want, as long as it is legal?


You have to remember that rights are not naturally existent, they are enforced. Also legality crosses over with morality. So this is not only about whether something is legal, but about whether it should be legal.

bw123 wrote:I haven't seen any evidence yet that any harm was done? They targeted some ads to people, goes on all the time...


Hmm, many would say the election of Donald Trump was pretty harmful.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby bw123 » 2018-03-21 13:58

Lysander wrote:
bw123 wrote:I haven't seen any evidence yet that any harm was done? They targeted some ads to people, goes on all the time...


Hmm, many would say the election of Donald Trump was pretty harmful.


Where's the evidence that any election results anywhere was actually "influenced" by this technology? I watch ads all day long about JG Wentworth, it drives me crazy with that stupid song, but I'd never don't have a structured settlement and I don;t need cash now, so it does no harm.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-03-21 14:01

^Mainstream media generally don't need evidence, as long as the story sells. This one does sell, so they go at it knowing that most of the public doesn't care. "Bread and games", as the saying goes.
Just look at the headlines from a few days ago, it's the same. No evidence needed.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby alan stone » 2018-03-21 14:04

debiman wrote:... the internet needs more rules.

Some food for thought about the impact of technology.

So how about, instead:

(1) refuse to consent to, and boycot predatory, crony people and organisations?
(2) stop whining when getting the consequences of not doing (1)?
(3) learn from mistakes and do better next?

No initiation of coercion, force or violence needed to solve a problem.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby Bulkley » 2018-03-21 14:53

n_hologram wrote:My point was that the same issue was present before possible election meddling -- the writing has been on the walls for years . . .


Correct. Here's Eben Moglen in 2012. "Eben Moglen is a professor of law and legal history at Columbia University, and is the founder, Director-Counsel and Chairman of Software Freedom Law Center, whose client list includes numerous pro bono clients, such as the Free Software Foundation." Eben Moglen on Facebook, Google and Government Surveillance
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

Postby n_hologram » 2018-03-21 15:01

ticojohn wrote:I agree that we should discuss the aspects of the influence of these companies, and how they can affect our way of life. Just saying that referring to specific political figures and how they may or may not have used data mining to achieve their specific objectives may not be appropriate.

I don't see how you can have a discussion about the internet without even unintentionally discussing politics, which shape the way we [are allowed or not allowed to] use it; laws are a huge factor behind censorship (or lack thereof) and surveillance (or lack thereof). I always thought the two unspoken boundaries were 1) passing judgment on a particular candidate, or 2) allowing a thread to break from the technology side so far that it is only about politics (or political opinions), not computers. Could be wrong though.
Wheelerof4te wrote:the US media is just using this story to blast the current US president instead of focusing on Mark.

It depends on your source. Lots of them have been ripping Zuckerberg apart since the original privacy breach, when everyone learned that the "privacy settings" did literally nothing, and the courts gave him a slap on the wrist.
Lysander wrote:
bw123 wrote:I think fb has a right to use whatever info is voluntarily provided to them anyway they want, as long as it is legal?
You have to remember that rights are not naturally existent, they are enforced. Also legality crosses over with morality. So this is not only about whether something is legal, but about whether it should be legal.

Interestingly enough, because the information was trafficked through third-parties, there's a potential loophole that could classify all user data as "campaign donations," and would, therefore, violate some pretty well-known federal policies concerning the way candidates are allowed to receive campaign donations. If the courts determine this, there will be some interesting outcomes looking forward, including the potential for new laws (hopefully salient ones) regarding ways to interpret political data online, regulations on data collection and distribution, and the future of targeted, politically-charged advertisement.

(Edited for clarity.)
Last edited by n_hologram on 2018-03-21 16:58, edited 2 times in total.
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