microwave emissions reduction - bluetooth WIFI

[paint-it-black]

Hello I very much appreciate your help with this. I am "microwave sensitive", or whatever you want to call it. I have been involved in computer design and programming for decades. It is quite ironic, but the WIFI, Bluetooth, (and cell phones for that matter) are now giving me headaches. So I either turn the power down very low, or turn them off. I certainly don't want to get nailed by my machine when I boot it. It takes time to type a bunch of commands, and often a person needs to sit next to the offending machine while doing so.

I. Bluetooth

I understand that some people have Bluetooth keyboards and the like -- but of course I don't have any such peripherals. Yet, it seems to be impossible to convince Bluetooth not to fire up. I've gone through the rc.d scripts, I found the link to the init.d script that starts the server, and I found the defaults file and set $BLUETOOTH_ENABLED=0. No matter what I do when I run bluetoothctl and type show, the Bluetooth peripheral is shown to be powered on and listening. Google searches have yielded other posters also saying they can't get it to shut up, and other suggestions were equal in that they did not work.

There is a nuance here. I don't want the service not to start per se, rather I want to make sure the card never transmits. Those might be different things. For all I know, out of the box and without a driver it is still going to spew microwaves all over the place. How can I set this so it is configured to never transmit?

II. WIFI

The WIFI card initializes at full power. The router with default settings does the same. They are like two people in a busy crowd screaming at each other to be heard, because everyone else is also screaming at each other to be heard. It is the stupidest default configuration choice possible. Makes me wonder what the heck my colleagues were thinking when they designed this stuff.

So I moved the router and knocked the power to the minimum setting. Now the hackers in the building down the street are only getting three bars reception from it, instead of the five they were getting before. I'm still getting five. Guess I'll take the antennas off or wrap them in foil .. anyway, this is a bit of a tangent ...

I found the txpower option in iwconfig and I can set the power on the linux box down to 1dbm, that works for me. However it is booting at 22dbm. I would rather it booted powered off with not even a beacon, and then I set the power, then if it has to be used, can turn it back on. xfce4 here has a network manager and I did turn the WIFI off by default, so does this mean the card is not transmitting?

I have a health issue with these devices, as increasingly so do many others (if you are getting pressure headaches ...), but there are also security issues here. Besides those microwave seeking missiles the Israelis used to nail a suspected militant ... it is also a bad deal if a hacker can start dumping data off the machine during boot, via a wireless network link. It really is best that the WIFI is not used, but if it must, it is best that it does not go far. Same for Bluetooth Etc.

Help with getting this machine to boot microwave quiet would be sincerely appreciated.

[stevepusser]

Your symptoms are no doubt real, but every scientifically blinded test that has ever been done prove that nobody can tell when a device is or is not emitting microwaves when there is no external sign that they are powered on or off.

I don't expect that you will accept this, but if you ever do, then you're on the path to solving your real issues.

Or you can just take a homeopathic preparation of moonlight, which will prevent the microwaves from affecting you as well as anything else.

[paint-it-black]

What a strange reply. You are trolling over the idea that microwaves effect people.

Go stick a kitchen utensil in the safety lock of a microwave oven. That is the same frequency as WIFI. Put your head in, run it for about 10 minutes. Tell me if it has no effect. .. so you certainly agree there is a threshold where it has an effect. You don't really believe it is not possible.

You are not actually listing any studies. How convenient to wave your hands and wish it to be .. but here are couple of serious studies, there is a very large bibliography for these, hundreds of studies, which is why cell phones have been classed as probable carcinogens:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280397/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440565/

If you have an iphone, go look up the legal notice. It will tell you that you shouldn't put the phone near your body.

If you would rather see a review article, here are a couple in mainstream journals, Wired, and The Nation
https://www.wired.com/beyond-the-beyond ... want-know/
https://www.thenation.com/article/how-b ... stigation/

I am a scientist and an engineer. I understand these studies, and it is clear that microwave exposure, even at low levels, is unhealthy. Probably about like smoking cigarettes except effecting the brain and reproductive organs, instead of the lungs. But honestly, I might not really care so much if they didn't give me headaches.

But really .. can't we talk about how to turn off the blue tooth transmitter? What is it to you why I want it off? And also, this is a breach of security protocol in many places, so that should be reason enough.

[ticojohn]

Go stick a kitchen utensil in the safety lock of a microwave oven. That is the same frequency as WIFI. Put your head in, run it for about 10 minutes. Tell me if it has no effect. ..

Yep. Defeat the safety mechanisms and the microwave oven will cook you as well as any other piece of meat. Stand in front of a high power radar antenna and the same thing will happen. That doesn't mean that you are "sensitive" to microwaves. It means that high power microwaves don't discriminate between humans and other targets. I would agree with what was posted by another and am inclined to believe that there is some other source of your symptoms than the low power non-ionizing radiation that comes from the Blue Tooth devices. I mean, good golly, you are being bombarded with all forms of radiation every day, and many are a lot higher power than what you may be receiving from a Blue Tooth device. All sorts of photonic radiation (which includes microwaves) are hitting you constantly and you have millions of muons passing through your body every second. Fortunately, photons are generally not that dangerous unless you are exposed to an extremely powerful source. The dangerous things are ionizing sources that can cause damage to molecular structures (eg. xrays, cosmic rays, gamma rays).

[paint-it-black]

You just blew off two serious studies, a large cannon of knowledge on the subject, and a conclusion by an international body in classifying microwave sources as possible carcinogens -- with folksy wisdom about people 'being bombarded with all sorts of radiation'. LOL that's convincing. .. and are doing so in a Debian forum because you don't believe that watt range microwave transmissions at short distance can have harmful effects ... and so are apparently reasoning forward that the Debian Linux distribution should ignore the Enabled=0 flag and leave the transmitter on at boot time.. Oh, and there is apparently another guy that agrees with you.. gee that seals it. .. Do you work for Microsoft Support?

[stevepusser]

There have been many blinded studies with people that get sick when they know devices nearby are turned on. When they can't know if they are on or not, it falls to random chance. Not one person has shown any correlation. I defy you to do the same tests yourself with proper double-blinding, since you say they make you sick. You will be famous and no doubt rich if you can prove any correlation.

Microwaves can't affect DNA. Their energy levels are far too low to break chemical bonds--that's a simple fact of science. Deal with it. And continue to ignore the fact that the Sun puts out loads of radio energy already that we are bathed in constantly. Regular computer circuitry can also put out a lot of RF, too, especially with the trendy see-through cases or plastic laptop chassis. Just put a radio next to one.

[pcalvert]

Good questions, and I am also interested in the answers.

This might be helpful:

Code: Select all

more /etc/bluetooth/main.conf


Phil

[jibberjabber]

by paint-it-black »Go stick a kitchen utensil in the safety lock of a microwave oven. That is the same frequency as WIFI. Put your head in, run it for about 10 minutes. Tell me if it has no effect. ..

This entire thread is nonsense, but this is funny, ...
If you stick your hand into the flame on a gas stove , it will burn you. If you put your hand on the element of a electric stove it also will burn you.
But any way, if one really is so sensitive to the micro wave frequency generated by wifi, just get some protective clothing:
Where can I get a suit and head cover to protect me from wifi radiation
one of the many results, says this:

About the product

Shields RF from wi-fi, cellphones, smart meters 25-40 dB
Unique radio frequency shielding fabric in lining
Looks and wears like normal baseball cap
Protects covered area from microwave radiation
Effective radiation blocking - refer to the char

another, "protective undwear":

SHIELD - SignalProof Apparel

---url removed-----

19 Dec 2017 ... ... 90% of wireless radiation such as cellphone or wifi radiation. This antiradiation underwear gives you full 360° protection. VIEW PRODUCT ...

When I worked in a foundry, we all ways wore protective clothing especially for when one was working right in front of, or close to the furnaces, it is reall necessary in that kind of situation. the heat is so intense 1200 + degrees Fahrenheit,...

[stevepusser]

Computer-related, this scam: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/delt ... omputers#/

Though maybe if you actually had a working quantum computer that could come up with the exact equation (from the infinite space of possible ones) with the output stream that would generate the exact same sequence of bits as your 1080p movie, it might be possible. But no one has a quantum computer that can do that.

[Fernando Negro]

To paint-it-black,

Know that, this forums are not immune to trolls (and, in fact, I have yet to find any significantly-sized forum on the Internet where trolls are not present).


To everyone,

Biologically speaking, human beings can be pretty different among themselves.

And, concerning only the specific case of how the body reacts to radiation exposure, notice that:

1) Some people are born with dark skin, that protects them from high levels of sun radiation, by producing melanin. While, on the other hand, some people are born with pale skin that tries to maximize every little amount of sun radiation it gets (to produce vitamin D). And, the latter type of persons have to be very careful with high amounts of exposure to sun radiation in countries closer to the Equator, and use protective sun cream.

2) Also, people with blue and green eyes have to be more careful with sun radiation exposure (should use sunglasses more often).

3) And, some people cannot even be exposed to only a minimum amount of sun radiation: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... light.html

So, there are already (at least) three well-known types of people whose bodies react badly to a certain type of radiation.

How can we reject the idea that there are also people whose bodies react differently to the mentioned (Wi-Fi and Bluetooth) type of radiation?

And, do you know that your skin becomes thinner as you age?

(Also, still talking about different types of skin and protections, have you ever heard the story of Gulli Fridporsson? - https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment ... human-seal)

It's already a known fact that there are people who claim to be much more sensitive to microwave radiation from cell phone towers and devices, and that move to the countryside, nowadays, in order to escape this type of radiation. And, coincidence or not, I remember sometimes feeling dizzy, during the years that I used cell phones, shortly after using them.

(Hell, I even had a university colleague who - unlike everyone else - would get electric shocks from touchscreens, on the type of "quiz" video game machines that existed in bars, at the turn of the century.)

Concerning supposed studies, that are referenced in the mainstream media,

You simply cannot trust much of what the mass media says about the health effects of products that are sold by the big industries (https://www.prisonplanet.com/big-pharma ... merck.html) - since, the mass media themselves are also owned by big economic interests, and every well-informed person knows that these interests are all buddies between themselves.

And, in the case of technology that emits radiation... For example, looking at how important cell phone technology is nowadays for the purpose of surveillance, I most definitely do not expect to ever see studies like this one - https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/ ... zards.html - being reported by any big media outlet.

So, not having ever observed this phenomenon of increased sensitivity to radiation myself, I'm personally opting to be "agnostic" about this.

Anyway, this is only a secondary discussion, which is not really important... Since, what the OP is asking for, is for some specific technical help.

[sunrat]

EMF sensitivity is a thing which affects people no matter what scientific research says. Whether it's purely psychological or has some physical basis makes no difference to those who suffer from it. I'm disappointed so many have sidestepped the actual question posed here to rant.

Bluetooth and wifi should be able to be disabled in the BIOS/UEFI. If you actually want to use wifi it's more tricky but as you've found a way to limit power there's probably a way to have it do that from boot. Likely not many people have considered throttling wifi power so there may not be much advice forthcoming. Maybe you can work out something with rfkill to boot with it off and manually start it.

[paint-it-black]

pcalvert that works, thank you.

The last option in /etc/bluetooth/main.conf was "AutoEnable=true" I set that to false, and now the machine boots without bluetooth.

As noted in the original post the /etc/bluetooth/default BLUETOOTH_ENABLED=0 option was ignored or overridden.

Thank you also wizard10000 and sunrat who attempted answers. I didn't find anything in the bios. I have no idea how to put that in UEFI .. if someone knows it would be good to see.

For the WIFI I've used iwconfig to change the power on boot. I would still like to know more about how that device is booted, or have a better solution for setting the power early. Yes, normally I use a cable. Sometimes WIFI is unavoidable if I want to get work done.

[None1975]

Ts, you should buy a foil hat

[pcalvert]

As noted in the original post the /etc/bluetooth/default BLUETOOTH_ENABLED=0 option was ignored or overridden.

I also saw the file /etc/default/bluetooth, but I noticed that the date on that file is 2010, so I guessed that it is obsolete and no longer used. On a fairly new Debian installation that file is not present.

Phil

[Fernando Negro]

I would rather it booted powered off with not even a beacon, and then I set the power, then if it has to be used, can turn it back on.

If you're talking about a laptop that already came with this type of wireless cards, I'm under the impression that the more recent type of BIOSes (UEFI ones) have an option to enable or disable this type of components. And so, whenever you want to use the latter, you'll just have to reboot the computer to access the BIOS menu.

(You should, nevertheless, explore every option available in the BIOS menus to learn about your computer's capabilities.)

If it's a desktop computer, if you'll be the only one using it, and if it will be a rare occurrence to want to use wireless cards... It's not that much of a trouble to just open the computer, once in a while, to plug or unplug a card like this.

They are like two people in a busy crowd screaming at each other to be heard, because everyone else is also screaming at each other to be heard. It is the stupidest default configuration choice possible. Makes me wonder what the heck my colleagues were thinking when they designed this stuff.
(...)
Now the hackers in the building down the street are only getting three bars reception from it, instead of the five they were getting before.
(...)
But there are also security issues here (...) it is also a bad deal if a hacker can start dumping data off the machine during boot, via a wireless network link. It really is best that the WIFI is not used, but if it must, it is best that it does not go far. Same for Bluetooth Etc.

Engineers at companies just do what they're told, and create things within a set of parameters determined, or allowed, by their bosses. So, the question here is: What are the people who run this or that company thinking about, when they decrease security? And, the answer is: Backdoors and Surveillance. (Or, in other words: Control.)

That's why you can, nowadays, open a car from a distance, for example. That's why an "Internet of Things" is planned. Etc...