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eBook Reader or Tablet

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qyron
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eBook Reader or Tablet

#1 Post by qyron »

I've been looking at the scenario of buying one of these equipments lately.

My patience is going thin when dealing with sales clerks because my doubts are not addressed. I keep getting a sales pitch (I worked on sales for some time, so I'm fairly able to recognize one being hurled at me) and I'm directed to the product the store wants to move not what may actually be more suited for my needs.

Browsing and researching on the web is producing mixed results and even more doubts. I keep getting hits stating that eBook are cheaper than the average tablet and my reality is not that, with the average reader going for at least €75, with the average price parking at the €110»€130 range, and the high end readers going for more than €200. An entry level tablet, with a 7 inch screen can be as low as €35 and a beefier 10 inch model can be found at around €60.

Are there any members here that can share their experience with these equipments? Versus using a common tablet?
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tynman
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#2 Post by tynman »

I owned a Sony e-reader for a few years. When that died after a few years, I purchased a Kobo e-reader. In my experience, e-readers are very good for one thing: reading books. I have found I am able to read stuff on an e-reader for long stretches of time without any eye fatigue. They usually claim to have other features, but I have generally found the extra features to be fairly useless.

I have never owned a tablet. Their screens aren't optimized for extended reading of text. Apparently many of them are sold, so they must be good for something.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#3 Post by qyron »

tynman wrote: I have found I am able to read stuff on an e-reader for long stretches of time without any eye fatigue.
That is exactly my concern.
tynman wrote: I have never owned a tablet. Their screens aren't optimized for extended reading of text. Apparently many of them are sold, so they must be good for something.
You and me both. I've used one a few (short) times but that was it. I'm still struggling with the concept.

Thank you for the input.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#4 Post by debiman »

i am confused why you say "ebook reader or tablet" - it seems to me you actually want an ebook reader? you only want to read ebooks with it?
you have to be careful that they aren't locked into some kind of scheme where you need to be connected to the internet to be able to read books (i heard about this; no first hand experience).
personally, i'd try to go 100% offline.
and i'd look for something second hand on ebay.
there are also specific ebook reader distros out there; iirc one of the residents here reported on it at some point.
some half-random search results:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13863046
http://www.junauza.com/2008/11/10-linux ... aders.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... s/d39a3fn/

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#5 Post by Hallvor »

I have never had problems reading on a tablet, but then I have never tried a specialized reader.

I always prefer bringing the tablet when traveling instead if bringing a heavy book. In addition, I can use it for movies and web browsing. I almost never use it at home, though...
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RU55EL
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#6 Post by RU55EL »

I have, and use, both an e-reader and a tablet. I have no problem reading on them for long periods of time. The e-reader is much better in direct sunlight that the tablet and a battery charge lasts much longer. The tablet, of course, can do much more but depletes the battery quicker. The e-reader is smaller, usually my first choice when going somewhere where I may have to wait. At home, I will more commonly use a tablet. I like them both.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#7 Post by pylkko »

Tablet's and other computers generally have some kind of backlighterd display. Perhaps and LCD or AMOLED, which means that there is a large lamp shining light, and on top of that is a layer of pixels that can change the light in different wys to form an image. E-book readers tend to have E-ink displays, which do not have a lamp, but the image is created by dark or coloured specks that can be turned on or of with electric current and which reflect light. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper). This is the reason that they cause less eye fatigue and are so aesthetically pleasing. You can buy linux controllable E-ink displays. People often control these with Raspberry pi's and simiar to make low power displays of information (news, calendar, weather that kind of stuff)

However, I believe that all commercial (not DIY) E-book readers -- or at least do not know of one that is not -- organized so that the content that you buy is "not yours". That is, there is a server somewhere, and when you pay for a book, you unlock access to it on that server for youtself. This means you cannot read your own made documents, pirated stuff, and need to have a mobile connection. You also cannot just give the book to a friend, for example. According to Wikipedia, Amazon Kindle has a service where you can email stuff to Amazon and they will put ot into your account (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle). This is the reason that I do not have one of these readers although I like the displays.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#8 Post by qyron »

debiman wrote: i am confused why you say "ebook reader or tablet" - it seems to me you actually want an ebook reader? you only want to read ebooks with it?
Just reading. Not that I'm about to give up the "mystique" of plain old paper but more and more work is being put in digital format and there are even works I do want to read and even learn from but have no intention to keep a copy taking up room in my shelves.
debiman wrote: you have to be careful that they aren't locked into some kind of scheme where you need to be connected to the internet to be able to read books (i heard about this; no first hand experience).
personally, i'd try to go 100% offline.
and i'd look for something second hand on ebay.
The used devices I've found are either too small (under 5 inches of reading area) or nearly as expensive as off the shelf products, which makes no sense, no matter what condition the items may be in. I've even looked into refurbished units and the over pricing trend stays.
From the research I've done, some readers depend on an always available internet connection and some can access files from memory cards; I'm partial to the second model.
debiman wrote: there are also specific ebook reader distros out there; iirc one of the residents here reported on it at some point.
some half-random search results:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13863046
http://www.junauza.com/2008/11/10-linux ... aders.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... s/d39a3fn/
I'll take a look at these.

Thank you.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#9 Post by qyron »

pylkko wrote: Tablet's and other computers generally have some kind of backlighterd display. Perhaps and LCD or AMOLED, which means that there is a large lamp shining light, and on top of that is a layer of pixels that can change the light in different wys to form an image. E-book readers tend to have E-ink displays, which do not have a lamp, but the image is created by dark or coloured specks that can be turned on or of with electric current and which reflect light. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper). This is the reason that they cause less eye fatigue and are so aesthetically pleasing. You can buy linux controllable E-ink displays. People often control these with Raspberry pi's and simiar to make low power displays of information (news, calendar, weather that kind of stuff)
Wasn't aware of that before. I'll risk those screens will be very small. And carrying a Raspberry Pi around is not very reasonable... yet.
pylkko wrote: However, I believe that all commercial (not DIY) E-book readers -- or at least do not know of one that is not -- organized so that the content that you buy is "not yours". That is, there is a server somewhere, and when you pay for a book, you unlock access to it on that server for youtself. This means you cannot read your own made documents, pirated stuff, and need to have a mobile connection. You also cannot just give the book to a friend, for example. According to Wikipedia, Amazon Kindle has a service where you can email stuff to Amazon and they will put ot into your account (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle). This is the reason that I do not have one of these readers although I like the displays.
Following this, it does make a pretty good case for the tablet.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#10 Post by RU55EL »

pylkko wrote:Tablet's and other computers generally have some kind of backlighterd display. Perhaps and LCD or AMOLED, which means that there is a large lamp shining light, and on top of that is a layer of pixels that can change the light in different wys to form an image. E-book readers tend to have E-ink displays, which do not have a lamp, but the image is created by dark or coloured specks that can be turned on or of with electric current and which reflect light.[...]
The current Amazon kindles with E-ink also have back lighting, but it is not required to see the display like on a tablet. The back light allows you to read in the dark.
pylkko wrote:However, I believe that all commercial (not DIY) E-book readers -- or at least do not know of one that is not -- organized so that the content that you buy is "not yours". That is, there is a server somewhere, and when you pay for a book, you unlock access to it on that server for youtself. This means you cannot read your own made documents, pirated stuff, and need to have a mobile connection. You also cannot just give the book to a friend, for example. According to Wikipedia, Amazon Kindle has a service where you can email stuff to Amazon and they will put ot into your account (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle). [...]
Some clarification of the Amazon Kindle. The content bought from Amazon is essentially not yours. You can download it to a certain number of your devices for reading, but that is it. But, once it is on your Kindle, or cell phone, or computer, you don't need access to Amazon to read it. You only need access to Amazon to download it to another kindle, or computer, or cell phone.

You can copy any text file, or .mobi file to a kindle and read it without any problem. You can also do the same with .pdf files, but reading a .pdf on a Kindle is not the best, the format is fixed and the kindle screen is small. I've got more non-Amazon (my own, or free) content on my Kindle than books purchased from Amazon. If you want to add some of your own content to your kindle, just connect a USB cable (windows or Linux) and drag and drop. (You can also email personal content to a special Amazon address and download it to your Kindle by whisper net or wifi. But, a USB cable is much easier.) If you purchase a book from Amazon (and your kindle has whisper net, basically free cell phone access to Amazon) you can download a book from anywhere you have cell access. If your Kindle doesn't have "whisper net" you can use wifi. You can also download Amazon book content to your computer then transfer to your kindle by USB.

For reading .pdf files, a tablet works much better. Especially one with a 10" screen.

And, although I love high technology, there is nothing like the smell and feel of a high quality hard back book. Sometimes paper is the best format.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#11 Post by debiman »

qyron wrote:The used devices I've found are either too small (under 5 inches of reading area) or nearly as expensive as off the shelf products, which makes no sense, no matter what condition the items may be in.
that's strange. this page (price range 10 to 50 euro, cheapest first) suggests otherwise, if "6in" means 6 inch.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#12 Post by qyron »

debiman wrote: that's strange. this page (price range 10 to 50 euro, cheapest first) suggests otherwise, if "6in" means 6 inch.
I admit I never remember about Amazon. I'll take a look.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#13 Post by llivv »

I'd go to the library and see if they have one you can borrow.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#14 Post by debiman »

^ true dat.
or go to the shop and pretend like you want to buy something, then leave and order online :mrgreen:
qyron wrote:
debiman wrote: that's strange. this page (price range 10 to 50 euro, cheapest first) suggests otherwise, if "6in" means 6 inch.
I admit I never remember about Amazon. I'll take a look.
that's ebay. i think i'm traditionally more attached to ebay because amazon used to not sell second hand stuff; i'm sure the picture is similar on amazon.
btw, which part of the world?

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#15 Post by qyron »

eBay, Amazon... Those sites are so relevant in my day to day life that I easily forget about its existence.

I'm from Portugal.

And sadly, where I live, eBook readers on libraries are not even considered as an idea.

I actually write a bit and from time to time I write some stories for the local kindergarten and school and I've volunteered to supply my work in PDF format, to be stored and made available for teachers, parents and students alike and I'm turned down. I'm usually asked to supply an hard copy and that is it.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#16 Post by pendrachken »

pylkko wrote:Tablet's and other computers generally have some kind of backlighterd display. Perhaps and LCD or AMOLED, which means that there is a large lamp shining light, and on top of that is a layer of pixels that can change the light in different wys to form an image. E-book readers tend to have E-ink displays, which do not have a lamp, but the image is created by dark or coloured specks that can be turned on or of with electric current and which reflect light. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper). This is the reason that they cause less eye fatigue and are so aesthetically pleasing. You can buy linux controllable E-ink displays. People often control these with Raspberry pi's and simiar to make low power displays of information (news, calendar, weather that kind of stuff)

However, I believe that all commercial (not DIY) E-book readers -- or at least do not know of one that is not -- organized so that the content that you buy is "not yours". That is, there is a server somewhere, and when you pay for a book, you unlock access to it on that server for youtself. This means you cannot read your own made documents, pirated stuff, and need to have a mobile connection. You also cannot just give the book to a friend, for example. According to Wikipedia, Amazon Kindle has a service where you can email stuff to Amazon and they will put ot into your account (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle). This is the reason that I do not have one of these readers although I like the displays.

If you googled that far you might just have found a little something called "calibre". You know the little program for Win/Linux/Mac that talks to pretty much all of the ebook readers out there ( and even tablets with ereader software ) and lets you put your own books on the reader. It even helpfully converts pretty much any format out there to any other format so you can guarantee that your reader can read the book.


I only occasionally turn the wifi on my kindle paperwhite on, and that is only if I have books lined up in kindle unlimited to download. ~600 books on it right now, 10 from kindle unlimited, 0 from being bought on amazon, and ~590 bought / pirated from other places and DRM free. So no, you don't ever HAVE to turn on the wifi.

As for the rest of the discussion about backlights - the kindle paperwhite / nook glow ( if they still make it? ) are e-ink displays with lighting. You can read in the dark just as well as you can in direct sunlight. I actually find the default ~50% brightness on mine WAY too bright. 10% is plenty to read with in dark areas, and saves the battery quite a bit. At 10% backlight I can go 3-5 weeks with wifi off and reading 3-5 hours a day between charges.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#17 Post by pylkko »

pendrachken wrote: If you googled that far you might just have found a little something called "calibre". You know the little program for Win/Linux/Mac that talks to pretty much all of the ebook readers out there ( and even tablets with ereader software ) and lets you put your own books on the reader. It even helpfully converts pretty much any format out there to any other format so you can guarantee that your reader can read the book.

I only occasionally turn the wifi on my kindle paperwhite on, and that is only if I have books lined up in kindle unlimited to download. ~600 books on it right now, 10 from kindle unlimited, 0 from being bought on amazon, and ~590 bought / pirated from other places and DRM free. So no, you don't ever HAVE to turn on the wifi.
I have never had one of these devices, and have always heard about how the content is not transferable and even that you do not from the perspective of legislation have the right to copy the content even for your self. I have tried to read ebooks from libraries on calibre, but it cannot open them a they have some form of DRM.
As for the rest of the discussion about backlights - the kindle paperwhite / nook glow ( if they still make it? ) are e-ink displays with lighting. You can read in the dark just as well as you can in direct sunlight. I actually find the default ~50% brightness on mine WAY too bright. 10% is plenty to read with in dark areas, and saves the battery quite a bit. At 10% backlight I can go 3-5 weeks with wifi off and reading 3-5 hours a day between charges.
Do they really have back lights? I thought they have edge lights. For me, having a back light kind of defeats the purpose. Although you cannot read in the dark just as you cannot read a book in the dark, if there is no light. I have never had an e-book reader, but some e-ink displays that I have used have the capacity to hold the image even when they are unplugged, a fact that makes them extremely energy efficient for displaying certain kind of information (that doesn't need to be updated often). But with a backlight its just mildly better than a tablet, which can probably do many more things.

Last year I read about a few new technologies that were claimed to be future e-ink killers, in the sense that they would be so much better that all manufacturers would switch to them. One of them was called "ClearInk" and other I forgot what it is called. But it does not seem to be that they have taken off or become popular.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#18 Post by qyron »

Technical discussions aside, for the moment, I'm still fighting to grasp why the eReader is so much more costly when compared with the run of the mill tablet computer.

THE big retailer here (FNAC) sells Kobo eReaders (it's the official eReader for the chain, although other brands are available through their "marketplace", by independent merchants) and these little underpowered - and under-featured - machines are easily twice the price of a generic brand 10 inch tablet, with entry prices opening at €119,99 and the most expensive model going for €279,99. That is a big chunk of money when compared with the average €69,90 price tag on the competition.

Besides having a lot less memory available for storage (between 4GB and 8GB), I haven't seen any mention to expansion slots although there are some competitor models that have it (a model that goes for nearly €600 can expand up to 32GB via SD card), some of these machines boast having full internet navigation capabilities (on a fully B&W screen?). The average eReader also has a screen quite small (going from 6 inches to 7.8 inches - this last one being a bit odd in dimensions).

I approached the eReaders as more comfortable option to expand my opportunities to read but as I go along, either by doing more and more research and following this thread, it seems the technology is being charged at a premium with no real added value when compared to a tablet, except for the extra long battery life.
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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#19 Post by pylkko »

One thing is that the electrophoresis based display tech is more costlier. When you compare any kind of LCD, OLED of the same size to even the most primitive E-ink display module, the price is double or triple. This probably has also to do with the fact that there are not so many manufacturers and the techs are heavily patented.

Another thing probably is the shear volume that tablets are sold in.

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Re: eBook Reader or Tablet

#20 Post by qyron »

pylkko wrote:[...} and the techs are heavily patented.
This was something I wanted to mention and I completely overlooked as I wrote my previous reply.

Although most - if not all - eReaders have a very wide file format reading capability (with the EPUB standard being for all practical reasons universal) I was stunned to hear sales people trying to push the notion that although this and other formats were indeed readable, it should be expected from the users poor(er) performance when compared with the proprietary format of the reader parent company.

Taking into consideration that the EPUB format is the technical standard from which proprietary formats are usually converted this is a very dirty tactic to grab users/customers.

More and more, the scenario of using a tablet with an ebook reading app is looking more and more appealing.
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