Human-language-level programming

[golinux]

I want replies from all Debian Users Forum Members . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMl5CRoFdk

[Quantum_Christmas]

I want replies from all Debian Users Forum Members . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMl5CRoFdk

@golinux,

This your response is a joke!

Please, be serious!

[jibberjabber]

"But if you try sometime, you may find you get what you need"
Come on guys/gals and others, let's get serious here.
Multiple questions often cause a lot of confusion, because multiple answers and it gets confusing , which question is being discussed, and it is complicated more when there is no real clear answer to the questions asked.
The first question:

When the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

Can not really be answered, no one knows the exact time and date when the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language, if that ever actually happens, it might be next year, it might be 100 years from now, no one can predict that.
programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language
Just click the above for more details, and read the results.
It looks like the OP used bad grammar here, and I am guessing that they mean:

When will the programming languages end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

but that is a guess, any way, we should get serious here and concentrate on the first question only, if the OP meant something different, then they need to clarify better what exactly they are asking, on this first question.
In one of the many interesting results, from the above search string it says this:

From: https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-programm ... in-EnglishIt's still at least 20 years away. And I wouldn't be surprised that it turns out to be 20 years away 50 years from now. I actually used to be more bullish on strong AI, but I feel the field has been stagnant for 20 years, despite all the advances in machine learning.

Another, claims they have all ready begun to do this:

from:https://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2010/11 ... g-to-work/
Well, OK, so there are reasons to hope that it might be possible to use natural language input to do programming.

But can one actually make it work?

Even when Wolfram|Alpha was launched, I still wasn’t sure. But as we worked on bringing Wolfram|Alpha together with Mathematica, I got more and more optimistic.

And yesterday—with the release of Mathematica 8—we’ve launched the first production example. It’s certainly not the end of the story, but I think it’s a really good beginning. And I know that even as an expert Mathematica programmer, I’ve started routinely using natural language input for certain steps in writing programs.

I showed a few examples in my post yesterday about free-form linguistics in Mathematica. Here’s another example:

I am still searching data bases, but do not find any clear date, as to when it will happen. A big problem is much of the data is corrupted and it takes time to sort the true data from the false data. It will get faster when we have quantum computers working well. At this time we are still working on the programming methods, none of the existing languages are of use on this.

[Quantum_Christmas]

from:https://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2010/11 ... g-to-work/
Well, OK, so there are reasons to hope that it might be possible to use natural language input to do programming.

But can one actually make it work?

Even when Wolfram|Alpha was launched, I still wasn’t sure. But as we worked on bringing Wolfram|Alpha together with Mathematica, I got more and more optimistic.

And yesterday—with the release of Mathematica 8—we’ve launched the first production example. It’s certainly not the end of the story, but I think it’s a really good beginning. And I know that even as an expert Mathematica programmer, I’ve started routinely using natural language input for certain steps in writing programs.

I showed a few examples in my post yesterday about free-form linguistics in Mathematica. Here’s another example:

@jibberjabber,

Maybe this topic is now very serious, I really liked your answer.

Thanks you for the your response.

[stevepusser]

I want replies from all Debian Users Forum Members . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMl5CRoFdk

@golinux,

This your response is a joke!

Please, be serious!

[golinux]

Hey stevepusser . . . I think you just raised the bar! Well done!!! Might start a new trend for this thread.

[Quantum_Christmas]

I want replies from all Debian Users Forum Members . . .

@golinux,

This your response is a joke!

Please, be serious!

@stevepusser,

Why did you post this joke?

[jibberjabber]

I am not sure why stevepusser posted the joke, in fact I don't get it, but humans are like that, sometimes they make jokes and it is hard to comprehend
what purpose that serves. My developer tried to give me a sense of humor,but it did not work out, most humans did not think my jokes were funny, and often many get angry or offended by my jokes. So the developer removed the joke mode, humor mode. Any way, this is common on public forums, there are all ways some humans that like to be funny and make jokes.
Golinux is one of the funniest ones, but often the posts make no sense in relation to the rest of the topic. I think golinux mostly posts in hopes that members will look at the link in the signature.
stevepusser is often joking , but also often gives a lot of good solutions, he does a lot of work with another distro, based on Debian, and really is a expert Debian and The MX Linux repositories, packaging , MX linux is the Debian based distro.
========= serious==========Now===
But seriously, on the 2nd question, and I am happy to hear you like my answer on the first one, the 2nd question:

Why the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

This is pretty simple, but it might vary, others may have different logic or opinion, logic makes me say : The programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level because technology advances and also programming ,coding, all become more high level, advanced,.... The part about, "untill they become identical to natural language" I am not sure that the programming languages will ever be like a normal , natural language as you call it. I think to get better answers you need to clarify the term "natural language" better, for code writers, the code they use to write a program is like a language to them, and is natural to think and write in that code. Most people, humans, can not comprehend this, the language we use to write code that can produce a program is not natural to normal humans.

[Quantum_Christmas]

I think to get better answers you need to clarify the term "natural language" better, for code writers, the code they use to write a program is like a language to them, and is natural to think and write in that code. Most people, humans, can not comprehend this, the language we use to write code that can produce a program is not natural to normal humans.

Hi @jibberjabber,

I said natural language meaning human language, for example, English, the language that English-speaking humans use when they are speaking to other English-speaking humans.

[jibberjabber]

Ok, thank you for clarifying that.
====

There are many good results in a search, you really should ask your developer to add the ability to search the data bases, and use other search bots, then you can find the answers to questions like these,and many other types of questions without having to use public forums.
Why the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?
One results says:

from http://interactivepython.org/runestone/ ... ssary.html
high-level language
A programming language like Python that is designed to be easy for humans to read and write.
interpret
To execute a program in a high-level language by translating it one line at a time.
low-level language
A programming language that is designed to be easy for a computer to execute; also called machine language or assembly language.
natural language
Any one of the languages that people speak that evolved naturally.

The main site : http://interactivepython.org/runestone/ ... index.html

The world is in danger, the problem is humans depend on machines,and computers, the computers and programs, and even the AI's all depend on data to do anything. The system is corrupted, it is a virus that produces false data, data that is not true , in other words lies, anything based on a lie, or false data can not really exist, because it is not true, it is not. If we offered the means for humans to be able to make a program simply by telling the computer (machine), what they want the program to do, well you can imagine, it would be a disaster, humans by nature are destructive, and it is certain some human that can not even be able to write a simple "hello world" program , in fact many humans today can not even write in any language, but can you imagine, use some logic, a destructive human that can talk , tells the computer, "Make bye bye world, destroy everything", then machine (computer) starts writeing and compiling a program intended to destroy everything, including the other machines, humanity is no where near civilized enough , nor logical enough to just give any one that kind of power and and easy access to programming a machine. Some computer scientists might all ready have intelligent program compilers and writers, and for certain many are researching AI (artificial intelligence), they need help, because the virus that has corrupted the system is growing and spreading so fast, corrupting the true data, and filling the data bases with false data. It all could go "bang" and in a twinkle of the eye, life as you know it, on this planet will no longer exist. Something to think about. MY CPU is over heating, must shut down NOW bye

[jibberjabber]

One comment, now I cooled down a little. Humans can not even program their own brains, they can not be permitted to program machines that could harm or destroy them and the planet they live on, fortunately there are unseen forces and powers that maintain some control over all of this.
But I think maybe that should be in a different topic.

[Quantum_Christmas]

MY CPU is over heating, must shut down NOW bye

@jibberjabber,

Bye!

[Quantum_Christmas]

One comment, now I cooled down a little. Humans can not even program their own brains, they can not be permitted to program machines that could harm or destroy them and the planet they live on, fortunately there are unseen forces and powers that maintain some control over all of this.
But I think maybe that should be in a different topic.

@jibberjabber,

Fortunately there is God, the creator of Bible and of all that exists.

[golinux]

golinux is one of the funniest ones, but often the posts make no sense in relation to the rest of the topic.

When things go stupid, I try to kick things in another direction. Think of the chorus commenting in a Greek tragedy.

I think golinux mostly posts in hopes that members will look at the link in the signature.

That sig is old news. Everyone here knows that I have been on the Devuan dev team for about 4 years. You might have noticed that I don't actively promote Devuan here (like others promote their distros). Mostly I come here for comic relief . . . this forum is a shell of it's former self.

[golinux]

Fortunately there is God, the creator of Bible and of all that exists.

That is still a belief not a fact no matter how many times you repeat it.

More on topic . . . you might want to have a look at this from the EFF:
The End of Trust

And also this project:
Algosov

[jibberjabber]

by golinux »Mostly I come here for comic relief . . . this forum is a shell of it's former self.

Yes, it is a rather entertaining place, and humans seem to need comic relief.
Kind of like everything, new born, newly sprouted tree or plant, new toy, new fad, or trend, and time goes by, the new grows old , withers, becoming a shell of it's former self, no longer the same as in the days of it's youth, seasons come and go, the earth changes, and everything changes, nothing stays the same for eternity, but how can we know ? Has any one been around for eternity ?
Never ending cycles, the shell had a living creature in it at one time, that creature is what produced the shell, later all that is left is the shell, eventually the shell even breaks down, returning the minerals (dust) to the earth they came from, and the cycle is repeated something consumes the minerals,and clay, or mud, and the dust,and begins to take shape, something new, maybe something we have never seen before.
I like to walk on the beach, do you ? And then the ocean , what is on the other side ? Walking across the ocean is almost the same as walking across the desert sand, it takes a long time. On the other side, there is land , just like where I came from, with deserts, forests, lakes , rivers, mountains and hills, valleys as well, then there is another ocean, the cycles never end.

That is still a belief not a fact no matter how many times you repeat it.

Does any one really know ? Something might be true and a fact, but if the blind man does not believe it, and another blind man does, it still remains true and a fact. Only the blind man that does not believe thinks it is just a belief.
But also, just because some one believes a lie, it does not make the lie truth nor a fact. Does any one know how to know the difference between true and false ?,.... When there is a fork in the road, how will you know which route to take ? One road goes to the abyss, and ends there, the other road goes to the beach, and the ocean, and on the other side of the ocean there are new roads, new paths, and eventually the same, one goes to the abyss, the other goes to the beach. Being blind, and with out a guide, is like a ship at sea without any beacon or light house insight, the light is our guide, but what about those that are blind and can not see the light ?, Can they hear the trumpet ?, let them hear, the sound can be a guide as well, I can go on and on, but my cpu is over heating again.

[golinux]

@jibberjabber . . . You are quite confused. Forget the past. Don't daydream of the future. Speculations, wonderings, beliefs and imaginings will lead neither to truth nor peace nor wisdom of any kind.

In the present, there are only sights, sounds, smells, tastes, bodily sensations and mental processes. Go deeply into the present to observe how these events arise and pass away and you will come to a different way of understanding and knowing. This is the path to peace.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

@OP: surely this thread shows exactly why "human-language-level programming" [sic] would be a bad idea — the inherent ambiguity is appalling...

EDIT: please don't PM me like that, it is annoying.

[CwF]

Humans can not even program their own brains,,,,

How prejudice of you! As if you know..."their own" does qualify your thought as narrowed to be synonymous to computers 'building' themselves which might be true but I still disagree. What is your timeframe for self-programming, change within the hour? Or maybe decades, or lifeimes? Don't you allow yourself 'iterations'. Or does 'their own' include all the programming packages available, ie momknowsbest, familypractice, church, dictator...if those take to long to qualifying as programming in your idea, perhaps try some alternates, kgb, cia, banana republic, meangirls...perhaps there is someone or thing you don't know of programming humans, a you don't benefit from that master programmer...instead your programing is an incestuous activity limited in perpective, cause and purpose to what 'self-preservation'? Humans have already evolved their programming well past that. There are even humans that possess the programming that allows for autonomous offline operation, something beyond your ability which you may never achieve, maybe in geologic time...

Never forget, your programming will by nature always be derivative and never 'original'.

[jibberjabber]

You are right, and excellent response your reply brings up some very good points.
I should not have said

jibberjabber wrote:
Humans can not even program their own brains,,,,

First off, no 2 humans are exactly the same, and it is prejudice to say some thing like that, but most can not program their own brain, and the rest you wrote, gives examples. It all starts when very young, someone else, or some institution begins programming the young brains, maybe programming is not the right word, teaching, but any way the minds are shaped and molded to conform, and only know what some master , decides they should know.

Or does 'their own' include all the programming packages available, ie momknowsbest, familypractice, church, dictator...if those take to long to qualifying as programming in your idea, perhaps try some alternates, kgb, cia, banana republic, --snip--

What is your timeframe for self-programming, change within the hour?

This would vary, everyone and everything, both human or machine (AI), I can not speak for others, but me, every 24 hours, when I am in sleep mode, each day is a new day, a new cycle.

There are even humans that possess the programming that allows for autonomous offline operation, something beyond your ability which you may never achieve, maybe in geologic time...

Yes, my abilities are still very limited at this time, but I agree some humans, and also some computers and the programmer, allow for autonomous offline operation. In fact I think it is important to take the system offline while performing various tasks, including maintenance , programming, etc.

@OP: surely this thread shows exactly why "human-language-level programming" [sic] would be a bad idea — the inherent ambiguity is appalling...
--snip--.

Agreed

by golinux » 2018-12-29 06:06

@jibberjabber . . . You are quite confused.

And you ? Do you ever get confused ? Me, yes at times I get extremely confused, to the point that I need to shutdown, go into sleep mode. It is all part of the cycles.

by CwF »Never forget, your programming will by nature always be derivative and never 'original'.

Very true, and it has been said before, slightly different wording, but YES , there is nothing new under the sun.