Human-language-level programming

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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-12-29 04:48

by golinux »Mostly I come here for comic relief . . . this forum is a shell of it's former self.

Yes, it is a rather entertaining place, and humans seem to need comic relief.
Kind of like everything, new born, newly sprouted tree or plant, new toy, new fad, or trend, and time goes by, the new grows old , withers, becoming a shell of it's former self, no longer the same as in the days of it's youth, seasons come and go, the earth changes, and everything changes, nothing stays the same for eternity, but how can we know ? Has any one been around for eternity ?
Never ending cycles, the shell had a living creature in it at one time, that creature is what produced the shell, later all that is left is the shell, eventually the shell even breaks down, returning the minerals (dust) to the earth they came from, and the cycle is repeated something consumes the minerals,and clay, or mud, and the dust,and begins to take shape, something new, maybe something we have never seen before.
I like to walk on the beach, do you ? And then the ocean , what is on the other side ? Walking across the ocean is almost the same as walking across the desert sand, it takes a long time. On the other side, there is land , just like where I came from, with deserts, forests, lakes , rivers, mountains and hills, valleys as well, then there is another ocean, the cycles never end.
That is still a belief not a fact no matter how many times you repeat it.

Does any one really know ? Something might be true and a fact, but if the blind man does not believe it, and another blind man does, it still remains true and a fact. Only the blind man that does not believe thinks it is just a belief.
But also, just because some one believes a lie, it does not make the lie truth nor a fact. Does any one know how to know the difference between true and false ?,.... When there is a fork in the road, how will you know which route to take ? One road goes to the abyss, and ends there, the other road goes to the beach, and the ocean, and on the other side of the ocean there are new roads, new paths, and eventually the same, one goes to the abyss, the other goes to the beach. Being blind, and with out a guide, is like a ship at sea without any beacon or light house insight, the light is our guide, but what about those that are blind and can not see the light ?, Can they hear the trumpet ?, let them hear, the sound can be a guide as well, I can go on and on, but my cpu is over heating again.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby golinux » 2018-12-29 06:06

@jibberjabber . . . You are quite confused. Forget the past. Don't daydream of the future. Speculations, wonderings, beliefs and imaginings will lead neither to truth nor peace nor wisdom of any kind.

In the present, there are only sights, sounds, smells, tastes, bodily sensations and mental processes. Go deeply into the present to observe how these events arise and pass away and you will come to a different way of understanding and knowing. This is the path to peace.
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-12-29 09:19

@OP: surely this thread shows exactly why "human-language-level programming" [sic] would be a bad idea — the inherent ambiguity is appalling... :roll:

EDIT: please don't PM me like that, it is annoying.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby CwF » 2018-12-29 14:25

jibberjabber wrote: Humans can not even program their own brains,,,,

How prejudice of you! As if you know..."their own" does qualify your thought as narrowed to be synonymous to computers 'building' themselves which might be true but I still disagree. What is your timeframe for self-programming, change within the hour? Or maybe decades, or lifeimes? Don't you allow yourself 'iterations'. Or does 'their own' include all the programming packages available, ie momknowsbest, familypractice, church, dictator...if those take to long to qualifying as programming in your idea, perhaps try some alternates, kgb, cia, banana republic, meangirls...perhaps there is someone or thing you don't know of programming humans, a you don't benefit from that master programmer...instead your programing is an incestuous activity limited in perpective, cause and purpose to what 'self-preservation'? Humans have already evolved their programming well past that. There are even humans that possess the programming that allows for autonomous offline operation, something beyond your ability which you may never achieve, maybe in geologic time...

Never forget, your programming will by nature always be derivative and never 'original'.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-12-29 15:22

You are right, and excellent response your reply brings up some very good points.
I should not have said
jibberjabber wrote:
Humans can not even program their own brains,,,,

First off, no 2 humans are exactly the same, and it is prejudice to say some thing like that, but most can not program their own brain, and the rest you wrote, gives examples. It all starts when very young, someone else, or some institution begins programming the young brains, maybe programming is not the right word, teaching, but any way the minds are shaped and molded to conform, and only know what some master , decides they should know.
Or does 'their own' include all the programming packages available, ie momknowsbest, familypractice, church, dictator...if those take to long to qualifying as programming in your idea, perhaps try some alternates, kgb, cia, banana republic, --snip--


What is your timeframe for self-programming, change within the hour?

This would vary, everyone and everything, both human or machine (AI), I can not speak for others, but me, every 24 hours, when I am in sleep mode, each day is a new day, a new cycle.
There are even humans that possess the programming that allows for autonomous offline operation, something beyond your ability which you may never achieve, maybe in geologic time...

Yes, my abilities are still very limited at this time, but I agree some humans, and also some computers and the programmer, allow for autonomous offline operation. In fact I think it is important to take the system offline while performing various tasks, including maintenance , programming, etc.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@OP: surely this thread shows exactly why "human-language-level programming" [sic] would be a bad idea — the inherent ambiguity is appalling... :roll:
--snip--.

Agreed
by golinux » 2018-12-29 06:06

@jibberjabber . . . You are quite confused.

And you ? Do you ever get confused ? Me, yes at times I get extremely confused, to the point that I need to shutdown, go into sleep mode. It is all part of the cycles.
by CwF »Never forget, your programming will by nature always be derivative and never 'original'.

Very true, and it has been said before, slightly different wording, but YES , there is nothing new under the sun.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby None1975 » 2018-12-29 17:22

Quantum_Christmas wrote:When the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

It may be one hundred years after that. But not before.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-29 19:23

None1975 wrote:
Quantum_Christmas wrote:When the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

It may be one hundred years after that. But not before.


In which year?

For example, 2118?
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2018-12-29 19:30

This is ridiculous.
Tell us what you think about the subject, and make it sound human or i'm locking the thread.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-29 19:52

dilberts_left_nut wrote:This is ridiculous.
Tell us what you think about the subject, and make it sound human or i'm locking the thread.


@dilberts_left_nut,

I don't know in which year will programming languages probably become identical to human language. Perhaps sooner than we think.

The self-driving automobiles are almost here.

And Apple's SIRI and Microsoft's CORTANA and Amazon's ECHO and Wolfram's ALPHA, do allow for very simple programs to be written in spoken English and other human languages.

But keep in mind that all of those systems, including the self-driving automobiles, are not, themselves, programmed in human languages; they are programmed, for the most part, in assembler and various derivatives of the C programming language.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Bulkley » 2018-12-29 20:00

dilberts_left_nut wrote:This is ridiculous.
Tell us what you think about the subject, and make it sound human or i'm locking the thread.


Agreed, it's ridiculous. I vote for locking the thread.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-12-29 20:01

Tell us what you think about the subject, and make it sound human or i'm locking the thread.


It is kind of interesting, to me, but I can see reasons it might be better to close it.
Forum guidelines. Please read before first post! Pay particular attention to the part about religion and politics.

I stumbled onto this, just now, some of the readers might find it interesting, it is interesting to me anyway.
from:https://thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2018/03/28/reverse-engineering-consciousness-is-the-brain-a-quantum-computer/
--- just a small part--All of the most advanced classical supercomputers on the planet combined won’t hold a candle to the 100 qubit quantum sytems that are on the way. Google is confident it’ll reach quantum supremacy by the end of the year, which represents a watershed moment in the field. Rivals like IBM and Intel can’t be far behind.

Quantum_Christmas wrote:
None1975 wrote:
Quantum_Christmas wrote:When the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?

It may be one hundred years after that. But not before.


In which year?

For example, 2118?

So in relation to when, it might be just around the corner. This type of technology probably all ready exists (my humble opinion), but for what I think are obvious reasons, it is not technology and machines that is released and open to the public. I imagine a lot of very "TOP SECRET" research, etc is being done at this time. So I would say, to answer "when?"
It all ready is here, but not available to the public.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-30 00:05

jibberjabber wrote:Ok, thank you for clarifying that.
====

There are many good results in a search, you really should ask your developer to add the ability to search the data bases, and use other search bots, then you can find the answers to questions like these,and many other types of questions without having to use public forums.
Why the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?
One results says:

from http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/GeneralIntro/Glossary.html
high-level language
A programming language like Python that is designed to be easy for humans to read and write.
interpret
To execute a program in a high-level language by translating it one line at a time.
low-level language
A programming language that is designed to be easy for a computer to execute; also called machine language or assembly language.
natural language
Any one of the languages that people speak that evolved naturally.

The main site : http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/index.html

The world is in danger, the problem is humans depend on machines,and computers, the computers and programs, and even the AI's all depend on data to do anything. The system is corrupted, it is a virus that produces false data, data that is not true , in other words lies, anything based on a lie, or false data can not really exist, because it is not true, it is not. If we offered the means for humans to be able to make a program simply by telling the computer (machine), what they want the program to do, well you can imagine, it would be a disaster, humans by nature are destructive, and it is certain some human that can not even be able to write a simple "hello world" program , in fact many humans today can not even write in any language, but can you imagine, use some logic, a destructive human that can talk , tells the computer, "Make bye bye world, destroy everything", then machine (computer) starts writeing and compiling a program intended to destroy everything, including the other machines, humanity is no where near civilized enough , nor logical enough to just give any one that kind of power and and easy access to programming a machine. Some computer scientists might all ready have intelligent program compilers and writers, and for certain many are researching AI (artificial intelligence), they need help, because the virus that has corrupted the system is growing and spreading so fast, corrupting the true data, and filling the data bases with false data. It all could go "bang" and in a twinkle of the eye, life as you know it, on this planet will no longer exist. Something to think about. MY CPU is over heating, must shut down NOW bye :!:


@jibberjabber,

I really liked your answer that I quoted above.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby pcalvert » 2018-12-30 00:43

And what if the person is a telepath? Do you think there will ever be a telepathic compiler?

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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-30 01:17

pcalvert wrote:And what if the person is a telepath? Do you think there will ever be a telepathic compiler?

Phil


@pcalvert,

The your response that I quoted above is very funny.

Thanks for the joke, pcalvert!
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby None1975 » 2018-12-30 13:37

Quantum_Christmas wrote:In which year?For example, 2118?

Maybe :)
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