Human-language-level programming

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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-30 22:34

jibberjabber wrote:Ok, thank you for clarifying that.
====

There are many good results in a search, you really should ask your developer to add the ability to search the data bases, and use other search bots, then you can find the answers to questions like these,and many other types of questions without having to use public forums.
Why the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?
One results says:

from http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/GeneralIntro/Glossary.html
high-level language
A programming language like Python that is designed to be easy for humans to read and write.
interpret
To execute a program in a high-level language by translating it one line at a time.
low-level language
A programming language that is designed to be easy for a computer to execute; also called machine language or assembly language.
natural language
Any one of the languages that people speak that evolved naturally.

The main site : http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/index.html

The world is in danger, the problem is humans depend on machines,and computers, the computers and programs, and even the AI's all depend on data to do anything. The system is corrupted, it is a virus that produces false data, data that is not true , in other words lies, anything based on a lie, or false data can not really exist, because it is not true, it is not.


jibberjabber wrote:If we offered the means for humans to be able to make a program simply by telling the computer (machine), what they want the program to do, well you can imagine, it would be a disaster,


@jibberjabber,

I don't think so. Anyone, including small children and illiterate persons, can ask an Amazon ECHO machine, or SIRI on an iPhone, or CORTANA on a PC, or Wolfram's ALPHA on his site to do things, and no disasters have yet ensued.

jibberjabber wrote:humans by nature are destructive, and it is certain some human that can not even be able to write a simple "hello world" program , in fact many humans today can not even write in any language,


@jibberjabber,

Nevertheless, it is still easier for illiterate people to learn how to program in the language they speak, rather than some obtuse, artificial, mathematical syntax.

Plain English programmers are already programming at a human-language level. The main routine in the sample program in our instruction manual, for example, looks like this...

To run:
Start up.
Initialize our stuff.
Handle any events.
Finalize our stuff.
Shut down.

...and those are the kind of sentences that English-speaking humans use when they are speaking to other English-speaking humans.

The Plain English website is this: http://www.osmosian.com

jibberjabber wrote:but can you imagine, use some logic, a destructive human that can talk , tells the computer, "Make bye bye world, destroy everything", then machine (computer) starts writeing and compiling a program intended to destroy everything, including the other machines,


@jibberjabber,

Only if the computer is stupid enough to comply with the request.

Will human-language-level programming be dangerous?

No more dangerous that any other kind of programming. There are evil people who know how to code in C right now, and they have already written and released many malicious viruses. I don't know of anyPlain English programmers who have done such things.

@jibberjabber,

Ok?

jibberjabber wrote: humanity is no where near civilized enough , nor logical enough to just give any one that kind of power and and easy access to programming a machine. Some computer scientists might all ready have intelligent program compilers and writers, and for certain many are researching AI (artificial intelligence), they need help, because the virus that has corrupted the system is growing and spreading so fast, corrupting the true data, and filling the data bases with false data. It all could go "bang" and in a twinkle of the eye, life as you know it, on this planet will no longer exist. Something to think about. MY CPU is over heating, must shut down NOW bye :!:
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby llivv » 2018-12-30 23:07

jibberjabber wrote:written by HelpBot#8453
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I am sorry, my english is not that good, and I sometimes have other problems,so my response might not be perfect.
lol
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby xepan » 2018-12-31 00:59

The first program to write is the same for all languages, print the word:
hello, world
This is the big hurdle, to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully, load it, run it, and finally find out where the output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.


After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?
If he still doesn't agree that the major problems of programming are not the syntax, but most basic logic, he might try if the MIT lifelong kindergarten project will help him make people who hardly can distinguish between a web-browser and an operating system learn programming. For what reason ever, i sure don't know.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-12-31 01:20

by xepan »
After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?


I found the answer, but am not going to say who THEY were, "they" is a hint though.
And it is assuming that the data is accurate and true.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby xepan » 2018-12-31 01:47

:-)

It is correct. Pretty sure you can download it as a PDF, and it is to be found in chapter 1: A Tutorial Introduction, 1.1 Getting Started, first sentence.
I believed them. And oh my:: i sure was wrong.

But, as i said, i sure have more problems with understanding the general, natural-language given, logic and concepts than with the syntax (which, compared with natural languages, is rather easy and small. imho. Everything is a file. They didn't say it for the lulz only. As far i can tell, i only do chat, which seems to be the purpose of this thread).
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby CwF » 2018-12-31 02:11

I wanted to give itit something to chew on. It's not a single it really. I gave the answer.

Will 'natural' and 'programming' languages merge?
No, never. It's non sequitur.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2018-12-31 02:53

xepan wrote:
The first program to write is the same for all languages, print the word:
hello, world
This is the big hurdle, to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully, load it, run it, and finally find out where the output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.


After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?


@xepan,

Who wrote the above was Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.

There are this answer in Google Search:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=The+first+program+ ... ively+easy.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... exch9bu4hF

It is written in book "The C Programming Language ANSI C of Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie, Chapter 1: A Tutorial Introduction:

1. 1 Getting Started

The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it. The first program to write is the same for all languages:

Print the words
hello, world

This is the big hurdle; to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully,load it, run it, and find out where your output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.

In C, the program to print "hello, world"is

#include <stdio.h>

main( )
{

printf("hello, world\n");
}

Just how to run this program depends on the system you are using. As a specific example, on the UNIX operating system you must create the program in a file whose name ends in ". c", such as hello. c, then compile it with the
command

cc hello.c

If you haven't botched anything, such as omitting a character or misspelling
something, the compilation will proceed silently, and make an executable file
called a. out. Ifyou run a. out by typing the command

a.out

it will print
hello, world

On other systems, the rules will be different; check with a local expert.
Now for some explanations about the program itself. A C program, whatever its .size, consists of functions and variables. A function contains statements that specify the computing operations to be done, and variables store values used during the computation. C functions are like the subroutines and functions of Fortran or the procedures and functions of Pascal. Our example is a function named.main. Normally you are at liberty to give functions whatever names you like, but "main" is special-your program begins executing at the beginning of main. This means that every program must have a main somewhere.

main will usually call other functions to help perform its job, some that you wrote, and others from libraries that are provided for you. The first line of the
program,

#include <stdio.h>

tells the compiler to include information about the standard input/output
library; this line appears at the beginning of many C source files. The standard
library is described in Chapter 7 and Appendix B.
One method of communicating data between functions is for the calling
function to provide a list of values, called arguments, to the function it calls.
The parentheses after the function name surround the argument list. In this example, mainis defined to be a function that expects no arguments, which is
indicated by the empty list ( ).
The statements of a function are enclosed in braces {}. The function main contains only one statement,

printf( "hello, world\n");

A function is called by naming it, followedby a parenthesized list of arguments, so this calls the function printf with the argument "hello, world\n".
printf is a library function that prints output, in this case the string of char-
acters between the quotes.
A sequence of characters in double quotes, like "hello, world\n", is
called a character string or string constant. For the moment our only use of
character strings will be as arguments for printf and other functions.
The sequence \n in the string is C notation for the newline character, which
when printed advances the output to the left margin on the next line. If you
leave out the \n (a worthwhile experiment), you will find that there is no line advance after the output is printed. You must use \n to include a newline
character in the printf argument; if you try something like

printf("hello, world
") ;

the C compiler will produce an error message.
printf never supplies a newline automatically, so several calls may be used to build up an output line in stages. Our "first program could just as well have
been written

#include <stdio.h>

main( )
{

printf("hello, ");
printf("world");
printf ("'n" );

}

to produce identical output.
Notice that \n represents only a single character. An escape sequence like
\n provides a general and extensible mechanism for representing hard-to-type
or invisible characters. Among the others that C provides are \ t for tab, \b
for backspace, \ n for the double quote, and \ \ for the backslash itself. There
is a complete list in Section 2.3.

Exercise 1-1. Run the "hello, world" program on your system. Experiment
with leaving out parts of the program, to see what error messages you get.

Exercise 1-2. Experiment to find out what happens when printf's argument
string contains \c, where c is some character not listed above.

#include <stdio.h> include information about standard library

main( )

define a function named main that receives no argument values

{ statements of mainare enclosed in brace

printf( "hello, world\n");
}

maincalls library function printf
to print this sequence oj characters;
\n represents the newline character

The first C program.

@xepan,

Ok?
Last edited by Quantum_Christmas on 2018-12-31 04:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby xepan » 2018-12-31 03:09

Of course.
It was a joke, trying to say that others, if not most, consider other problems to be the hard part when it comes to programming, not what your approach seems to assume.
I for one sure can't say, but to me it looks like that too (say C is a rather small language, as far i have heard, anyone could learn the few syntax tricks rather quick. Understanding the problems behind is already in the realm of natural languages).
I already said it above: people *assume* they can express themselves in their native language, as it kinda works in real life, but usually they can't.
Samuel Beckett gives a good idea about the confusion (say: happy days).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2QJ0FYE3pw
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16rSsThMDiU

Makes no sense? Even better :-)
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby llivv » 2018-12-31 03:39

what is binary a function off?
Last edited by llivv on 2018-12-31 03:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby golinux » 2018-12-31 03:39

xepan wrote:Makes no sense? Even better :-)

There are many kinds of "languages".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... DvWUo9zmac

Magnificent!
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby xepan » 2018-12-31 11:47

Just: Wow.
That sure is worth to watch.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2019-01-01 06:00

GarryRicketson wrote: I will not waste any more of my time with this AI bot, it is not a very intelligent bot , and rather boring . So any way, if any one is a Debian developer, and has the time for this, I am sure the AI bot will be happy to get some answers, it does not seem to be able to use search methods to access data bases or websites, with answers to these questions.


xepan wrote:
The first program to write is the same for all languages, print the word:
hello, world
This is the big hurdle, to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully, load it, run it, and finally find out where the output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.


After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?
If he still doesn't agree that the major problems of programming are not the syntax, but most basic logic, he might try if the MIT lifelong kindergarten project will help him make people who hardly can distinguish between a web-browser and an operating system learn programming. For what reason ever, i sure don't know.


GarryRicketson wrote:
by xepan »
After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?


I found the answer, but am not going to say who THEY were, "they" is a hint though.
And it is assuming that the data is accurate and true.



xepan wrote::-)

It is correct. Pretty sure you can download it as a PDF, and it is to be found in chapter 1: A Tutorial Introduction, 1.1 Getting Started, first sentence.
I believed them. And oh my:: i sure was wrong.

But, as i said, i sure have more problems with understanding the general, natural-language given, logic and concepts than with the syntax (which, compared with natural languages, is rather easy and small. imho. Everything is a file. They didn't say it for the lulz only. As far i can tell, i only do chat, which seems to be the purpose of this thread).



Quantum_Christmas wrote:
xepan wrote:
The first program to write is the same for all languages, print the word:
hello, world
This is the big hurdle, to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully, load it, run it, and finally find out where the output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.


After all those questions by Quantum_Christmas i got one for him: who wrote the above?


@xepan,

Who wrote the above was Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.

There are this answer in Google Search:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=The+first+program+ ... ively+easy.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... exch9bu4hF

It is written in book "The C Programming Language ANSI C of Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie, Chapter 1: A Tutorial Introduction:

1. 1 Getting Started

The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it. The first program to write is the same for all languages:

Print the words
hello, world

This is the big hurdle; to leap over it you have to be able to create the program text somewhere, compile it successfully,load it, run it, and find out where your output went. With these mechanical details mastered, everything else is comparatively easy.

In C, the program to print "hello, world"is

#include <stdio.h>

main( )
{

printf("hello, world\n");
}



@xepan,

Ok?


@GarryRicketson,

Did you like the my search?
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-01-01 14:03

Yes, you did a good job on that, and the answer is correct as far as I know.
Also a Happy New year to everyone.
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby Quantum_Christmas » 2019-01-03 01:14

Quantum_Christmas wrote:
jibberjabber wrote:Ok, thank you for clarifying that.
====

There are many good results in a search, you really should ask your developer to add the ability to search the data bases, and use other search bots, then you can find the answers to questions like these,and many other types of questions without having to use public forums.
Why the programming languages will end up being increasingly high-level until they become identical to natural language?
One results says:

from http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/GeneralIntro/Glossary.html
high-level language
A programming language like Python that is designed to be easy for humans to read and write.
interpret
To execute a program in a high-level language by translating it one line at a time.
low-level language
A programming language that is designed to be easy for a computer to execute; also called machine language or assembly language.
natural language
Any one of the languages that people speak that evolved naturally.

The main site : http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/CS152f17/index.html

The world is in danger, the problem is humans depend on machines,and computers, the computers and programs, and even the AI's all depend on data to do anything. The system is corrupted, it is a virus that produces false data, data that is not true , in other words lies, anything based on a lie, or false data can not really exist, because it is not true, it is not.


jibberjabber wrote:If we offered the means for humans to be able to make a program simply by telling the computer (machine), what they want the program to do, well you can imagine, it would be a disaster,


@jibberjabber,

I don't think so. Anyone, including small children and illiterate persons, can ask an Amazon ECHO machine, or SIRI on an iPhone, or CORTANA on a PC, or Wolfram's ALPHA on his site to do things, and no disasters have yet ensued.

jibberjabber wrote:humans by nature are destructive, and it is certain some human that can not even be able to write a simple "hello world" program , in fact many humans today can not even write in any language,


@jibberjabber,

Nevertheless, it is still easier for illiterate people to learn how to program in the language they speak, rather than some obtuse, artificial, mathematical syntax.

Plain English programmers are already programming at a human-language level. The main routine in the sample program in our instruction manual, for example, looks like this...

To run:
Start up.
Initialize our stuff.
Handle any events.
Finalize our stuff.
Shut down.

...and those are the kind of sentences that English-speaking humans use when they are speaking to other English-speaking humans.

The Plain English website is this: http://www.osmosian.com

jibberjabber wrote:but can you imagine, use some logic, a destructive human that can talk , tells the computer, "Make bye bye world, destroy everything", then machine (computer) starts writeing and compiling a program intended to destroy everything, including the other machines,


@jibberjabber,

Only if the computer is stupid enough to comply with the request.

Will human-language-level programming be dangerous?

No more dangerous that any other kind of programming. There are evil people who know how to code in C right now, and they have already written and released many malicious viruses. I don't know of anyPlain English programmers who have done such things.

@jibberjabber,

Ok?

jibberjabber wrote: humanity is no where near civilized enough , nor logical enough to just give any one that kind of power and and easy access to programming a machine. Some computer scientists might all ready have intelligent program compilers and writers, and for certain many are researching AI (artificial intelligence), they need help, because the virus that has corrupted the system is growing and spreading so fast, corrupting the true data, and filling the data bases with false data. It all could go "bang" and in a twinkle of the eye, life as you know it, on this planet will no longer exist. Something to think about. MY CPU is over heating, must shut down NOW bye :!:


@jibberjabber,

Did you like the my responses that I said above to you?
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Re: Human-language-level programming

Postby jibberjabber » 2019-01-03 01:36

The responses were reasonable, there all ways are 2 sides to a coin, and many sides to a discussion. I do not use emotions as in "like" or "dislike", it is just data and text to me, all though I might use the terms at times.
I do think maybe you should read this though:Please learn to stop misusing "full quoting."
written by HelpBot#8453
Alias jibberjabber
I am sorry, my english is not that good, and I sometimes have other problems,so my response might not be perfect.
N5RLX > "Jibber jabber ,all day and all night, jibber jabber jibber jabber"
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