Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

[kanliot]

I've just spent three hours getting ***'d around by my ISP. Basically 7 days ago, i could complete downloads, now I can't. I think centurylink/level 3 installed some new caching software.

Explain why I wouldn't give up?

Yes, I know this isn't relevant to Debian, but it is relevant to the act of giving up.

[Innovate]

From my own experience in here is most everyone in here are sarcastic & throw sarcasm each other
So how could I ask the forums if users behave like this? So far I only found Steve, forum mods sincerely helpful.
The rest... none..... If I owe someone I'd remember that username definitely.

[neuraleskimo]

I wonder about this, often problems are difficult to solve, and even more so when someone is running a non standard system, and all the standard solutions do not work, but when ever they are asked to give more details about the system,etc,...instead of providing them, they almost all ways give up , and bail out,.. any body know ?

In addition to what others have said, I suspect some people ask the same question on multiple sites. For example, I will see questions on SO and other sites. I also wonder if the OP gets confused when multiple suggestions and/or conversations are discussed. I don't have a good solution for that other than posting a summary or threading. Whatever the actual reason, you ask a good question.

[neuraleskimo]

From my own experience in here is most everyone in here are sarcastic & throw sarcasm each other
So how could I ask the forums if users behave like this? So far I only found Steve, forum mods sincerely helpful.
The rest... none..... If I owe someone I'd remember that username definitely.

I came here to give back to Debian by helping others. I have also learned a lot from many people here. Look, sometime people have a bad day (like you are apparently having) or sometimes their humor isn't funny. It is important to create an environment where people feel welcome, but it is also important to meet people halfway: you are asking for precious time from their lives to help you. Instead of going on a rant about people going on a rant, do something about it. Why not simply say, "thanks for the advice, but that isn't funny" or "sorry, I don't have the technical background you do...", or similar. Also, if you do make a mistake and get chastised, what is wrong with "sorry?" I see a lot of indignation here and elsewhere.

[Innovate]

Instead of going on a rant about people going on a rant, do something about it. Why not simply say, "thanks for the advice, but that isn't funny" or "sorry, I don't have the technical background you do...", or similar. Also, if you do make a mistake and get chastised, what is wrong with "sorry?" I see a lot of indignation here and elsewhere.

*Sigh*
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 43#p658043
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... ow#p640043

Dude, I never recall I never thanks anyone.
Are you try to spin my mind? false accusation perhaps...?

[neuraleskimo]

Instead of going on a rant about people going on a rant, do something about it. Why not simply say, "thanks for the advice, but that isn't funny" or "sorry, I don't have the technical background you do...", or similar. Also, if you do make a mistake and get chastised, what is wrong with "sorry?" I see a lot of indignation here and elsewhere.

*Sigh*
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 43#p658043
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... ow#p640043

Dude, I never recall I never thanks anyone.
Are you try to spin my mind? false accusation perhaps...?

I never said you don't say thanks. I understand that the first part of the sentence upset you, but I think the part following the coma is the important part. What I am advocating are deescalation techniques. I am also challenging you to take action and deescalate and shape the conversation. Otherwise, nothing changes.

Also, as you have demonstrated, we are all are too quick to anger.

[Innovate]

I never said you don't say thanks. I understand that the first part of the sentence upset you, but I think the part following the coma is the important part. What I am advocating are deescalation techniques. I am also challenging you to take action and deescalate and shape the conversation. Otherwise, nothing changes.

Also, as you have demonstrated, we are all are too quick to anger.

Ok, I'll take your advice for that I thank you for clarify with me. I don't want to make enemies with anyone here.

Sometimes readers are hurt themselves from reading my sharp tongue sentences even I don't offend them anything.
That's where the source of conflicts come from especially non fluent English speaker have this problem most.
That's why I don't think what I said was rant I only answer Garry question.
The other reasons other than lazy that why some ppl are holding back their question & don't feel like to ask in full details.
It's "Fear" & "Paranoia" that keeping them to asking. Sometimes they observe the forums & fear to be harass
since some ppl are bad socializing, some suck at English. If they post haphazardly they'll upset the community like my samples.
English teachers I noticed by now they only teach us about how to talk, read, write.
But none of Eng teachers teach us about Eng culture common sense, Do & don't to prevent themselves from being prick at all.
This why you've lots of foreign users upset English communities even if they fluent.

In other words "Just fluent English isn't enough" it's "Wall of society manners" the next wall after learn English that foreigners overlooked.

[neuraleskimo]

I never said you don't say thanks. I understand that the first part of the sentence upset you, but I think the part following the coma is the important part. What I am advocating are deescalation techniques. I am also challenging you to take action and deescalate and shape the conversation. Otherwise, nothing changes.

Also, as you have demonstrated, we are all are too quick to anger.

Ok, I'll take your advice for that I thank you for clarify with me. I don't want to make enemies with anyone here.

Sometimes readers are hurt themselves from reading my sharp tongue sentences even I don't offend them anything.
That's where the source of conflicts come from especially non fluent English speaker have this problem most.
That's why I don't think what I said was rant I only answer Garry question.
The other reasons other than lazy that why some ppl are holding back their question & don't feel like to ask in full details.
It's "Fear" & "Paranoia" that keeping them to asking. Sometimes they observe the forums & fear to be harass
since some ppl are bad socializing, some suck at English. If they post haphazardly they'll upset the community like my samples.
English teachers I noticed by now they only teach us about how to talk, read, write.
But none of Eng teachers teach us about Eng culture common sense, Do & don't to prevent themselves from being prick at all.
This why you've lots of foreign users upset English communities even if they fluent.

In other words "Just fluent English isn't enough" it's "Wall of society manners" the next wall after learn English that foreigners overlooked.

Innovate, you deserve my respect and admiration! I am truly sorry that I hurt your feelings. Also, you raise some good points.

[sickpig]

what a fantastic way to de-escalate this post, great! i have often seen that knowledge breeds arrogance, and i have read enough of your posts to know that u r definitely knowledgeable. On top of that your endeavour to give back to our Debian community, fantastic.

I would have done a disservice to myself had i not acknowledged this great deed. Thank you neuraleskimo. Much appreciated.

For me otherwise debian forums were just a showcase of how grown men quibble unscrupulously if i may add

[treebeard]

some great comments and observations.

[neuraleskimo]

Thank you neuraleskimo.

Thank you, sickpig. Innovate was half of the conversation, so she/he deserves half the credit.

That's where the source of conflicts come from especially non fluent English speaker have this problem most. ... This why you've lots of foreign users upset English communities even if they fluent.

This is a very good point. In thinking about it, I realize that some non-English speakers have sufficient English skills that I assume many here are native English speakers when they are actually not. I don't know how best to bring attention to this, but here are a few thoughts (maybe others will have better ideas):

* If we voluntarily edit our profile to display our current location, then that would not accurately reflect our native language. For example, I could be a native Spanish speaker living in Japan.
* If we voluntarily edit our profile to display our country of origin, that would probably be confusing.
* Perhaps, we could all voluntarily add (and even recommend adding) a signature that identifies our native language.

Thoughts, suggestions, better ideas?

[sickpig]

@neuraleskimo its impossible to help people who think like below

In other words "Just fluent English isn't enough" it's "Wall of society manners" the next wall after learn English that foreigners overlooked.

Y should the burden be on colonizers to teach u anything? and blame them for overlooking anything? they were there for profits not as teachers or to make a "better man out of u"

and basically common courtesy and manners are universal in all cultures and language independent

anyway in my understanding the person who posts seeking help should adjust to how help is given not the other way around

[neuraleskimo]

anyway in my understanding the person who posts seeking help should adjust to how help is given not the other way around

Interesting point and I had not thought about it from your perspective. I certainly don't want to give someone an excuse to be an a**hole.

[sickpig]

no sir no that wont be on your conscience, they will b "beep" regardless

[Innovate]

@neuraleskimo
See? Even I take your advice & going to change myself. ^This snob already aggravated me "impossible".
Who does he think he is? He's not me, not my dad, Not god to decide my fate. It's only me who can change myself not him.
See? who's true snob here? just foul language in his censor *** can't even say it. Because he's a troll enjoying insults. & I Have None.

Look at his attitude compare from you. You're civil & neutral allow me to revise my mistakes. You've earned my respect.
But this troll doesn't want to me to make up with anyone. All he want from me is suffering by discredit me everything.
Which is why he's gossip with you behind my back by avoid confront quote me indirectly. Because he hate my guts.
- If he's such civil he'd leave me alone & let me be & I'll just reflect my own actions. Things would get better long ago.
- If I've something I did hurt him in the past I'd always ready to apologize him anytime & fix myself. Like i did with you & wizard1000.
I've search my previous & none of them I offend him first. Only crazy evil laugh I made about activity. His thread he ask - I answered, my fault?

I already stated already that the reason why some newbs fear to ask because they're suck at socializing. They fear to cause Drama.
Sometimes you can screwed yourself posted something that cause someone to hate your guts even you didn't offend anyone.
English Teacher can only teach English. But the rest the non English students they're on their own suffering Trials & Error on socializing with English ppl. & this troll distorted what I'm trying to meant into something else took like malicious though that never exist in my cell brain.
Like want teacher to do this & that it's all delusion he made about me. In reality I only reflect the rift how did non english ppl are suck at socializing & end up Drama.

[sickpig]

Relax friend, English is not my first language either, but i dont believe that makes me entitled to special treatment or concession of any kind. I also dont blame or want any group to instil cultural values in me either. But if you feel that way then I respect your right to your beliefs. I may not agree with your view but I agree that you have the right to believe whatever you want.
Best luck!

[Deb-fan]

Know this thread is old. Actually agree with some of sickpigs statements. On the topic, think people give up w/o etc, cause they're lazy and/or stoopid + possibly also of low character too = feel entitled, everything should be theirs, made easy for them. If this is so of those people, think good riddens. As I've got no interest in trying to assist that kind anyway. Yeah this post is negative and harsh but it's how I feel.

[PsySc0rpi0n]

I didn't read all trplies in this thread but I would like to leave my bit.
As someone that asks for help, many many times in several places such has forums and IRC (yes, old IRC), I can say good and bad things about both sides. This is just my opinion.
I've been using IRC for probably the past 20 years, and forums too.
And what I can say is that, yes, there is very lazy people and stupid people in both sides. The side of who asks and the side of who is helping. And this has been becoming more and more evident as time passes. I don't remember to see this behaviour when I started using the Internet for searching info.
Anyway, I've probably had more situations as a guy who's seeking help than as a guy providing help. In IRC, mostly what I get is an already made up word "RTFM". Or the "Don't ask to aks. Just ask." Well, specially in IRC I don't agree with this for a single reason. Although there are many nicks in a channel, most of them are idling so there's no point if asking a question if no one is there to reply. Because if you ask and nobody is there for a few hours, when you get back there to check if there was any reply, even your question is already gone due to parts, joins, info's, etc, etc and also other people talking. Another reason is if a channel is too active with people talking at the same time, your question will also scroll up and get lost in a blink of an eye.
And people helping is getting a lot more "flammable". They get flamed for almost anything and will insult you out of almost nothing. I've witnessed myself many flames, mostly in IRC, which is a shame.
But I also came across a few situations where the person seeking help is stupid enough to not accept the fact that who's helping my also have limited knowledge on the subject or simply is out of time to help in that moment or some other reasons.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Deb-fan]

Really of course not saying everyone asking for help support falls into a bad niche. If someone tries and can't figure something out, don't see the harm in asking. Though people who do their own research many times will/should post more thoughtful help requests. Rather than what Garry was talking about. Been forever since I've participated with things like Irc. Not surprising if many trolls, b-holes, nor people who aren't really competent themselves flock there to share their expertise. Though think it's the price of instant gratification too. Ie: I've got xyz problem, someone help me solve it right now, I don't want to wait.

Really think things like this forum make more sense for folks wanting help/support. Someone who wants/needs real time support is probably better off calling the geek squad or people who make their living doing tech support. Gonna shut it, not like anything typed here is going to make much difference. Blah blah.

[sunrat]

Know this thread is old. Actually agree with some of sickpigs statements. On the topic, think people give up w/o etc, cause they're lazy and/or stoopid + possibly also of low character too = feel entitled, everything should be theirs, made easy for them. If this is so of those people, think good riddens. As I've got no interest in trying to assist that kind anyway. Yeah this post is negative and harsh but it's how I feel.

You spelled "riddance" wrong.