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Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 17:36
by bester69
Hi,
Im using btrfs snapshots tested points, to keep the most clean and stable system as Im installing/unstalling things on it from time to time, and Ive realised that everytime I install something or a third party app, something stop working as before or doesnt work properly anymore... thanks that we've snapshots available to rollback with success most of times.

for example,.. A few days ago I realised cantata lost sync. with mpd on resuming system from sleep..So Ive to put myself to thing what did I change the few days before.. Im not sure what had changed because I updated snapshot with issue within it, And now mpd gets some lag during restoring network connection on resuming. So Ive had to make some workaround scripts to "kill STOP/CONT mpd" during resume system, to wait for network connection to get stablished, to prevent that annoy lag.

I think the culprit might be the third party app I installed (HEADSET playermusic), but I'd have to uninstalled it to verify it.

Whith all of this what I meant, is that Debian/Linux distros are very sensible/unstable to anything you install (at least, when It doesnt belong to distro.), So in theses years with linux, this is one of the things that I less like about using linux...You need to watch over what you last installed and tested for a while before to accept it as part of your whole installation.

In Linux, if it works good, dont touch it, dont update it...or you will get some Headaches, like difference behavior, performance or new unexpeceted crashes!! :? , tha's the reason I tend to hold some apps I use everyday that are well tested and works properly..I dont updated them if not neccesary and install the minimum possible to avoid all of theses troubles.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 17:51
by pylkko
I have no doubt that what you say is true in the sense that you have first-hand experienced this. However, it is very apparent is that you 1) make the conclusions on very weak ground and 2) are slightly dishonest to yourself and 3) deliberately express these views in a provocative way attempting to fish out some reactions (i.e you are trolling).

Because anyone that has followed your doings even in the slightest knows that you have gone to extreme lengths to make sure that you have chaotic system that has difficulties in maintaining stability. You are using old Ubuntu kernels with a Frankendebian with packages installed and mixed from everywhere possible.

I am not going to say that what you do is wrong. Actually it shows some kind of interest in understanding and testing how systems work to hack up something like that.

But you do always get what you order... It's like going to a health food restaurant, looking at the menu and requesting a McDonalds meal, then getting it and complaining that restaurants are unhealthy.

It is simply not the fault of the provider here. And it is also not really nice to blame the linux kernel or distributions built by people around it on the grounds that your chaotic hybrid system does not work well. It takes a lot of time and effort to make software behave well together on any operating system. This is what "distros" are, a lot of work to make a collection of software work together. If you refuse to use a well curated distribution, then you are on your own (that is, unless you manage to get other people on board).

But I do feel that using third party software has become more easier and reliable with additional package managers (language and program specific ones like PyPi, and new "universal package distribution" methods like appimages, flatpacks, snaps and so on..)

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 18:02
by Wheelerof4te
OP, I have a perfect distro for your excessive bash-and-crash approach to maintaining system stability.
Honestly, try out Slackware. It even has KDE as it's default DE.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 18:52
by bester69
pylkko wrote:..

Because anyone that has followed your doings even in the slightest knows that you have gone to extreme lengths to make sure that you have chaotic system that has difficulties in maintaining stability. You are using old Ubuntu kernels with a Frankendebian with packages installed and mixed from everywhere possible.
,,,,
But I do feel that using third party software has become more easier and reliable with additional package managers (language and program specific ones like PyPi, and new "universal package distribution" methods like appimages, flatpacks, snaps and so on..)


I wouldnt consider my debian a Frankendebian anymore, Apart from some few packages Ive very under control (most of them backported by Steve), Im not using other repos. mixed anymore, but debian ones. Its truth I alway used ubuntu's kernels, but that's not what is happening here.

we know snaps/flatpak/appimage doesnt mess with system, but the question is, can we install third party apps (.deb) that mix with the stable system? (It seems not very recommendable, they seem to mess the stability system).

>> As a rule, a third app installation should break the debian certificate contract stability, Is it like that?

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 20:56
by Wheelerof4te
bester69 wrote:>> As a rule, a third app installation should break the debian certificate contract stability, Is it like that?

Nah, it will just create a dependency hell.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-08 22:02
by bester69
Wheelerof4te wrote:
bester69 wrote:>> As a rule, a third app installation should break the debian certificate contract stability, Is it like that?

Nah, it will just create a dependency hell.


I uninstalled HEADSET and sync./latency problem with mpd problem was gone...So we cant install anything outside debian repos.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-09 10:55
by wizard10000
bester, isn't this what almost all of us have told you since about your first post here?

:mrgreen:

Glad the light finally came on - cheers :)

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-09 12:44
by None1975
I think the culprit might be the third party app I installed (HEADSET playermusic), but I'd have to uninstalled it to verify it.

You wrote us, all users of this forum, how good this program is, how to install it ...and it turned out that this vague program is a crap. We look forward to offering you more.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-09 16:33
by bester69
None1975 wrote:
I think the culprit might be the third party app I installed (HEADSET playermusic), but I'd have to uninstalled it to verify it.

You wrote us, all users of this forum, how good this program is, how to install it ...and it turned out that this vague program is a crap. We look forward to offering you more.

Its not crap, its just third party apps bringht with them some surprises eventually...I dont understand why they have to mess (override) with the system libraries..to me,its clear we cant trust anything outside repos. but snaps/flatpaks.. If I hadnt btrfs snapshots available, right now I'd have had to reinstall debian several times.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-09 18:16
by None1975
to me,its clear we cant trust anything outside repos.

It has been clear for a long time ...The reason that Debian Stable is so reliable is because software is extensively tested and bug-fixed before being included.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-10 08:38
by Lysander
Wheelerof4te wrote:OP, I have a perfect distro for your excessive bash-and-crash approach to maintaining system stability.
Honestly, try out Slackware. It even has KDE as it's default DE.


Please don't bring him over our way.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-10 22:53
by sickpig
bester69 it is very safe to install apps which are not from the official repos if you follow viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38976
the official packaging guide is like every other fine print or terms and conditions - makes zero sense

dont just install any random .deb create your own and your system would b rock solid
i have deleted disabled uninstalled installed gazillion files (i say files as everything including your installed app can be divided into its representative files), but havent yet managed to break my system (believe me i try to everyday)- thats the power of debian's stability

Lysander wrote:Please don't bring him over our way.

:lol: :lol: :lol: so very welcoming :lol:

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-11 00:55
by stevepusser
Bester, what about the packages you have installed from my third-party repos? They're reasonably safe if built in the correct way.

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-11 02:43
by bester69
stevepusser wrote:Bester, what about the packages you have installed from my third-party repos? They're reasonably safe if built in the correct way.

All of what I installed from your repos, worked great..I only trust in you repos..and debian's.

Thanks Steve. :o

Re: Linux is very sensible (better dont touch it!)

PostPosted: 2019-05-11 08:21
by wizard10000
You know, if you're allergic to snap/flatpak/whatever as I am you can always compile just about anything you want. checkinstall is a quick and dirty way to create and install a .deb package.

https://wiki.debian.org/CheckInstall