Debian User Forums

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:I have HP Elite Book 2530p, with Core2Duo @1.6GHz, 2GB RAM.
The original 1.8 inch HDD have died, and its impossible get a *really* new one - so I've replaced the DVD-reader with a 2'5 inch HDD bay with GoodRAM CX120 SSD inside.

Buster i386 +XFCE works like a crazy in this configuration - complete boot time, including POST, around 6-7 seconds, shutdown <1s (really, I can't even count from 0 to 1 before it's completely powered off, but perhaps I'm counting too slow )

Its a good idea, I was thinking of buying a small SDD an DVD adapter just for the system installlation (cache and swap)..Im not sure if you can put home outside of SDD and not losing much speed..

Yes, Upgrade it, it will make your old hardware flying.

A friend has a HP pavillion notebook, laptop it originally shipped with windows 7, has less ram then the one you show, 2gb Since I don't have it here, handy I don't remember all the specs, but any way just a few days ago I installed Debian 10 (Buster), with the Mate DE, everything works fine, I think you should be ok with upgrading.
I do have some of the details on file here:

cuckooflew wrote:A friend has a HP pavillion notebook, laptop it originally shipped with windows 7, has less ram then the one you show, 2gb Since I don't have it here, handy I don't remember all the specs, but any way just a few days ago I installed Debian 10 (Buster), with the Mate DE, everything works fine, I think you should be ok with upgrading.
I do have some of the details on file here:

cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz, 2094.75 MHz, 06-17-0a
Thats a very powefull CPU for a simple linux, normal It works fine.,,
My CPU only have one core..there's a big difference in performance between a multi-core cpu and a single one.

I already installed in past buster for testing, but I think to remember It used some litle more RAM..and new kernel, drivers and microcode gave me the usuall performance issues I got with my hardware..thing likes meltdown patches and other isolation security patches downgrade my hardware cpu.. so I would have try to downgrade kenerl, microcode and firmware to ancient versions..

microcode could perhaps disabled it.. and firmware and kernel install older versions, but I dont know if thats possible..I think firmware, only need i965 folder to be overwrited with and firmaware's older versions, I think it could work out.

I would do Need to apply this after installing buster.:
0 - Overwrite microcode with an stretch's version (dont know if possible) or unistalled it.
I need; 3.20171117.1~bpo9+1 microcode version

1- Install older ubuntu's kernel 4.4.39 (its the version that feel good to my cpu), I think I need to install some modules to be able to installes, I dont know if ii would be able to install this kernel in buster
https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.4.39/

2- Overwrite intel graphics drivers, by overwriting i965 folder, with older firmware (firmware-linux-nonfree_20161130-5_all.deb).. I think, this is possible.:
sudo rsync --delete -av i915/ /lib/firmware/i915/
sudo update-initramfs -u -t

with theses three steps of tweaking I think I could make buster feeld and performance similar to my stretch's installation..

bester69 wrote: cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz, 2094.75 MHz, 06-17-0a
Thats a very powefull CPU for a simple linux, normal It works fine.,,
My CPU only have one core..there's a big difference in performance between a multi-core cpu and a single one.

My previous notebook, Samsung NC10, which i already mentioned in the thread, had singe core Intel Atom CPU. After upgrading to Buster, kernel created virtual second core. When I first time booted to Xfce on Buster, surprised a lot when gkrellm showed I have a two core cpu

Relevant Thread, if you haven't seen it:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=145995

I'd say Buster should be fine - I have a laptop from 2008 with a CPU from just a generation newer that I installed Stretch with Xfce on recently like that thinking Buster would be too much for such an old system - It ran quite well. I upgraded it to Buster with Xfce and it runs equally well. It's no powerhouse in the sense that it can hang if you try and do too much, but it's still much faster than Windows 10 on the same system. (Throwing an old SSD in it has solved a lot of those hanging issues though).

Zoot wrote:Relevant Thread, if you haven't seen it:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=145995

I'd say Buster should be fine - I have a laptop from 2008 with a CPU from just a generation newer that I installed Stretch with Xfce on recently like that thinking Buster would be too much for such an old system - It ran quite well. I upgraded it to Buster with Xfce and it runs equally well. It's no powerhouse in the sense that it can hang if you try and do too much, but it's still much faster than Windows 10 on the same system. (Throwing an old SSD in it has solved a lot of those hanging issues though).

You have a two core CPU as well, enought to run damn great any linux system..but cant do any normal life with just 2Gb RAM.. I had 1Gb, upgraded to 2Gb to install KDE, and then I realised wasnt enought to use browser with several tabs... I usually open upto 20-25 tabs in chromiun browser (opera).. so I needed as minum 4Gb..so I buyed for littell money, you should do the same as you already have SSD ... Im only missing a SSD for running faster my the system

arzgi wrote:

bester69 wrote: cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz, 2094.75 MHz, 06-17-0a
Thats a very powefull CPU for a simple linux, normal It works fine.,,
My CPU only have one core..there's a big difference in performance between a multi-core cpu and a single one.

My previous notebook, Samsung NC10, which i already mentioned in the thread, had singe core Intel Atom CPU. After upgrading to Buster, kernel created virtual second core. When I first time booted to Xfce on Buster, surprised a lot when gkrellm showed I have a two core cpu

I think that's cos you were running a 32bits system..I think multi-core only works in 64bits system

bester69 wrote:

arzgi wrote:

bester69 wrote: cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz, 2094.75 MHz, 06-17-0a
Thats a very powefull CPU for a simple linux, normal It works fine.,,
My CPU only have one core..there's a big difference in performance between a multi-core cpu and a single one.

My previous notebook, Samsung NC10, which i already mentioned in the thread, had singe core Intel Atom CPU. After upgrading to Buster, kernel created virtual second core. When I first time booted to Xfce on Buster, surprised a lot when gkrellm showed I have a two core cpu

I think that's cos you were running a 32bits system..I think multi-core only works in 64bits system

The NC10 had a core and a hyperthread core = 2 cores and XP 32bit would see both just fine. I have a 16 core XP with 24GB ram, yes it uses all cores and all that memory... it's not a linux or bit thing.

bester69 wrote:

Zoot wrote:Relevant Thread, if you haven't seen it:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=145995

I'd say Buster should be fine - I have a laptop from 2008 with a CPU from just a generation newer that I installed Stretch with Xfce on recently like that thinking Buster would be too much for such an old system - It ran quite well. I upgraded it to Buster with Xfce and it runs equally well. It's no powerhouse in the sense that it can hang if you try and do too much, but it's still much faster than Windows 10 on the same system. (Throwing an old SSD in it has solved a lot of those hanging issues though).

You have a two core CPU as well, enought to run damn great any linux system..but cant do any normal life with just 2Gb RAM.. I had 1Gb, upgraded to 2Gb to install KDE, and then I realised wasnt enought to use browser with several tabs... I usually open upto 20-25 tabs in chromiun browser (opera).. so I needed as minum 4Gb..so I buyed for littell money, you should do the same as you already have SSD ... Im only missing a SSD for running faster my the system

It's always been a very Linux friendly machine. The only real (Debian related) niggle with it is that you need the iwlwifi package given the WiFi card needs some non-free firmware, but that can easily be added during installation with a USB key or by using the ISO with the non-free stuff included.

Regarding the RAM amount, I do find you have to be a bit frugal with Firefox tabs on the system - not open too many at once. Other than that though, it really is a very functional system - Debian has really made it almost as good as it was back in 2008.

Zoot wrote:

bester69 wrote:

Zoot wrote:Relevant Thread, if you haven't seen it:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=145995

I'd say Buster should be fine - I have a laptop from 2008 with a CPU from just a generation newer that I installed Stretch with Xfce on recently like that thinking Buster would be too much for such an old system - It ran quite well. I upgraded it to Buster with Xfce and it runs equally well. It's no powerhouse in the sense that it can hang if you try and do too much, but it's still much faster than Windows 10 on the same system. (Throwing an old SSD in it has solved a lot of those hanging issues though).

You have a two core CPU as well, enought to run damn great any linux system..but cant do any normal life with just 2Gb RAM.. I had 1Gb, upgraded to 2Gb to install KDE, and then I realised wasnt enought to use browser with several tabs... I usually open upto 20-25 tabs in chromiun browser (opera).. so I needed as minum 4Gb..so I buyed for littell money, you should do the same as you already have SSD ... Im only missing a SSD for running faster my the system

It's always been a very Linux friendly machine. The only real (Debian related) niggle with it is that you need the iwlwifi package given the WiFi card needs some non-free firmware, but that can easily be added during installation with a USB key or by using the ISO with the non-free stuff included.

Here, a framework I made to work with btrfs snapshots
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135738
Regarding the RAM amount, I do find you have to be a bit frugal with Firefox tabs on the system - not open too many at once. Other than that though, it really is a very functional system - Debian has really made it almost as good as it was back in 2008.

Thats truth, I feel my 2008's laptop with debian stretch very operative as like a new computer for being already in 2020 ..I have it very well calibrated and everything runs smooth..I can watch any 720p movie in TV by VGA port with kodi17.. and can enjoy last update applications thanks to snap and flatpaks... I had some issues with last chromium/javascripts engines browsers, but I found a new browser version that runs super smooth (Brave-browser Ver1.3.118 Chromium: 80.0.3987.116 ), and I inmediatly hold it for good, cos I know i was pretty lucky..when I moved out that specific version, I went back to lag/performances issues with vertical scroll bar and renderings lags, or slow open taps reponse ... Im very happy with debian and linux..you feel never gets old and slow.. cant imagine how must be with a newer powerfull computer,,, that must fly

And thanks to btrfs snapshots, I rollback system and/or home setiings to clean points, after testing things and applications, so my system is alway like a charm.. years without reinstalling or getting myself in troubles,

here, A framework I made to make use of btrfs in an easily way.:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135738

arzgi wrote:

bester69 wrote: cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6500 @ 2.10GHz, 2094.75 MHz, 06-17-0a
Thats a very powefull CPU for a simple linux, normal It works fine.,,
My CPU only have one core..there's a big difference in performance between a multi-core cpu and a single one.

My previous notebook, Samsung NC10, which i already mentioned in the thread, had singe core Intel Atom CPU. After upgrading to Buster, kernel created virtual second core. When I first time booted to Xfce on Buster, surprised a lot when gkrellm showed I have a two core cpu

No doubt that was because of that Atom CPU's "hyperthreading"---now recognized as the source of many speculative execution security issues.

Stretch is OK for the present and probably several more years--I and the other MX packagers are still able to backport most new program releases for it, or you can get them from other sources.

stevepusser wrote:

arzgi wrote:
My previous notebook, Samsung NC10, which i already mentioned in the thread, had singe core Intel Atom CPU. After upgrading to Buster, kernel created virtual second core. When I first time booted to Xfce on Buster, surprised a lot when gkrellm showed I have a two core cpu

No doubt that was because of that Atom CPU's "hyperthreading"---now recognized as the source of many speculative execution security issues.

Good to know, thanks stevepusser!

That damn thing was made for Win XP, kept it so long as 10.5" display made it very portable, Debian still supported i386, and the internal 3g modem was handy when on the road.

Display stopped working when playing Linux Games Publishing's Knights & Merchants. Never got better, so ditched it.

I gave up Upgrading to buster
To much efforts and system not working smooth like before with stretch..

- I was able to install old kernel 4.4.39, was able to downgrade microcode and was able to downgrade graphic firmware to match older stretch installation.:
At first things looks aparently good, but then you realise its not working out.

>> I used kde Netrunner-Core as a base ditro buster to start a zero and clean debian migration.
Some list of issues I gave into moving to buster.:
- Once downgraded kernel to 4.4.39 I wasnt able to compile Virtualbox kernels, I only was able with last 4.4.x kernel
- dolphin, opened all folder with view preview checked.. (it seems a kde bug), but i wasnt able to figure it out how to fix it)
- mpv 29, doesnt work well, like mpv28, it insists in pick low quality streaming videos insteed of 720p.. .
(Couldnr keep mpv28 in buster, what i dosent yet understand, why cant we keep some older versions if we need them)
- last ffmpeg version eats more cpu, and doesnt performance so smooth like stretch one.
- kodi17 doesnt work smooth like with stretch.. menus moves like with some litle lag, and I didnt check video performances
- Some scripts stop working .. (some new versions, like borg need new parameters (borg init --encryptation))
- My Swat4 wine game, stopped working, thought I was able to make run some playonlinux apps i had installed, the one i matter wasnt able to make it work...,
wine 1.4.1 (requiered by swat4), doesnt deploy, ask for some fonts ...i tried with some mayor wine version to check if could fix it later, and gamen opened so slow it wasnt playable, what tells me, I woulldn be able to fix it, probable becouse new mesa or libdrm buster, wont make it work well.
- And I didnt try to migrate kontact, becouse that was so much work it was not going to pay off... So I gave up, and restored stretch btrfs snapshots..

I know with a new hardware, most of before issues will dissapear.., but for now, i cant move to buster without losing some performance and funcionality.. I dont want to lose Swat4 game, I play to it all my spare times.
-----------------------

By Resuming, BUSTER >> NOT SUITABLE FOR LOW SPECS CPU
Buster seems to eat some more few RAM (no much bigger than stretch), Is faster responsive with some things like IO/disk operations ..explorer (opening photos, copy/paste, unziiping, etc).. also quicker rendering web pages and images, but not suitable for lower cpu systems.. last ffmpeg libraries, mpv and others graphichs libraries and very importatn system components(LIBDRM, VAAPI, mesa, etc), WINE, microcode, last firmware, are not designed for very low spec computers... Its downgrades rather performance in comparison with Stretch

By Resuming, BUSTER >> NOT SUITABLE FOR LOW SPECS CPU

anticapitalista with antiX would not agree. Maybe it more your FrankenDebian's fault. How do any Live USBs you've tried perform?

stevepusser wrote:

By Resuming, BUSTER >> NOT SUITABLE FOR LOW SPECS CPU

anticapitalista with antiX would not agree. Maybe it more your FrankenDebian's fault. How do any Live USBs you've tried perform?

It might be a thing of my intel graphic chipset , indeed I have the same problems I had when I upgraded ffmpeg and libdrm/mesa with Stretch to last baackported versions... furthermore, I coulnt run Swat4 (wine 1.4.1) in playonlinux... and mpv29 works worse than mpv28 in stretch and in buster... and the problems with kodi17 didnt know what could be about, just felt laggy the menus... the browser more or less the same than stretch, perhaps faster rendering, but I have the same bothering issue with vertical bar scroll, it scroll kind of laggy...I just could fix this issue with kernel 4.4.39..others kernels reproduce the issue....; dolphin and IO operations are very fast in buster, perhaps too much, feels unnaturl, sometimes dolphin do some extrange things with focus on folders, selecting more than one folder.. to me , the most importan thing weren ok in buster.:
- Vertical bar browser scroll (kind of laagy)
- Swat4-playonlinux (wasnt able to deploy the wine version required)
- mpv29 (smplayer) (eats more cpu, looks worse the codecs like darker, and have the same bug than in stretch, that doesn pick hd online streams but low ones)
- kodi17 (felt very heavy or clumsy)
- The kernel version I need 4.4.39, couldn build Virtualbox modules (tried some few different versions)
- dolphin (so quick it does extrange things with focus on folders)

So, In general is a step backguards for me, I guess, In other computer with a more powerfull or better graphical chipset, should not get all of theses weird and bothering issues.

That's hardware is a fine spec even for today's bloated internetware.
I reduced the RAM consumption on my PC from 32GB down to 4GB by simply refactoring my workflow. This proves that even a 4GB is plenty enough in today's markets. I also maintain a usable fork of dwm that loads the system up inside of 100MB. Check it out. Your system will feel new again.

https://github.com/doa379/dwm-6.2-2

DebbyIan wrote:I also maintain a usable fork of dwm that loads the system up inside of 100MB. Check it out. Your system will feel new again.
https://github.com/doa379/dwm-6.2-2

It is not DWM that determines whether the system to start with 100MB above or below, but what have been installed, managed or optimized it is decisive.
dwm is a simple 500K WM resource.

I would advise the Op to check Alpine Linux (Standard) to me it is very efficient on old systems. Very small distro almost up-to-date apps.
Being a small system, one should use it with minimalistic configs. Those type of distro sill can provide fresh air for old hardware. Not only for 4GB but 2GB aswell.

The only uncertainty may come from Kernel that may have reduced support on drivers or code.
A distro-hop on this system is worth my opinion.

He brings in the question of which DE he's using. KDE in this case.
It's always possible to install a reduced Debian system. Kernel drivers are mostly modules. As I was trying to explain it can all be done within 100MB.

KDE still can still be used on 4GB Mem, The DE using only 500MB memory, if heavy applications are listed after it, the journey can be difficult even to 4GB
Therefore the reduction in a WM will bring other benefits, ofcourse requires more manual adjusts and tweaks. In the end the result will have a good end.

Ofcourse it's possible to reduce Debian, starting with NETINST and configuring via prompt, using minimal selections or configs only adds air to the old hardware.
Regarding kernel , if a custom have been made of course everything brings only advantages, my only fear is cleaning up old code at source from Linus on version 5+.
Sooner or later there will be cleaning for hardware that date 2005 or 2008 as i read from unofficial sources.

Indeed still can be done not only 100MB, but even below personally i have reached up to 60MB.