Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

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Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby bester69 » 2020-06-25 16:40

Hi,

Call me crazy, but I backup my whole system into the cloud.. ive no external disk so its cheaper :mrgreen:

This is my whole system backup:
I use,;
- fsarchiver (filesystem backup)
- duplicity (rclone backend)
- Box account (10Gbt free)


fsarchiver savefs -Av -s 2400 -z 7 $fsmount/backup.fsa /dev/sda2 \
--exclude=/home \
--exclude=.snapshots \
--exclude=/.snapshots \
--exclude=/var/lib/snapd \
--exclude=/var/lib/flatpak \
--exclude=/tmp/* \
--exclude=/usr/local/share/secrets"
duplicity -v 4 --progress --allow-source-mismatch --num-retries=5 --no-encryption --ssl-no-check-certificate --volsize 50 --verbosity=6 --timeout=60 --progress "$pathtarget" rclone:"//sysBox:/$pathback"


I had to exclude snapd and flatpak directories cos It raised to 9GBytes, so with thoses directories excluded it stays under 6Gbytes... Now, thanks to duplicty I can upload with integrity the whole backup.. in perhaps three days time of using computer.. no big trouble.. it just use upload bandwitch and very litle disk/cpu..

I prefer to have a workable system backup available, becouse my installation is very complex, and a zero insallations take me a lot of time and efforts. :?
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby RU55EL » 2020-06-25 17:01

Interesting. I backup only /home. It takes me about 15 minutes to perform a clean install. In fact, I always perform a clean install when upgrading Debian versions. I do keep /home on a separate partition.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-25 17:37

I don't use it,and don't trust it. I do realize it would be cheaper, but "cheap"is not worth the risk. I am secure using my own storage, EG: portable usb drives,that I keep in my home,and am confident nobody else might access them.
I suppose if the data does not contain any sensitive data,like bank account numbers, info,etc...or another example , a political figure that has data they don't want the "other side"to see, would be foolish to trust "the cloud",actually, what is "the cloud" any way ?
From:https://www.vox.com/2015/4/30/11562024/too-embarrassed-to-ask-what-is-the-cloud-and-how-does-it-workBut the cloud has its downfalls, too. Without an Internet connection — or with a crappy one — you’re basically locked out of accessing your data and cloud-based programs. The same applies if there are any technical issues or outages on the server side.
Also, because your information lives online, there’s always the risk of it getting into the wrong hands. All cloud companies have security measures in place to protect your data from hackers, but they’re not foolproof, so it’s always a good idea to be judicious about what you want stored in the cloud versus locally on your computer.

So anyway,
Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Not me, but I am sure many others do, it is very popular,and trustworthy organized groups, such as Microsoft,the Google corporation, and Amazon, all promote it, I am sure they have your best interest in mind.
From: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/insider/where-does-cloud-storage-really-reside-and-is-it-secure.htmlWhat makes cloud storage different? Instead of being stored directly on your own personal device (the hard drive on your laptop, for example, or your phone), cloud-based data is stored elsewhere — on servers owned by big companies, usually — and is made accessible to you via the internet.
When people think of cloud computing, they often think of internet-connected public clouds run by the likes of Amazon, Microsoft and Google. (If you use Gmail, Dropbox or Microsoft’s Office 365, you are using a cloud service.) There are also consumer clouds that, for example, hold your pictures and social media posts (think of Facebook or Twitter), or store your music and email (think of Apple or Google).
But I still don't trust it my self.
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Google knows a lot,
God, our Father knows all, maybe ask Him ,
…one flew east, one flew west,
One flew over the cuckoo’s nest.

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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby RU55EL » 2020-06-25 21:05

cuckooflew wrote:I don't use it,and don't trust it. I do realize it would be cheaper, but "cheap"is not worth the risk. I am secure using my own storage, EG: portable usb drives,that I keep in my home,and am confident nobody else might access them.
I suppose if the data does not contain any sensitive data,like bank account numbers, info,etc...or another example , a political figure that has data they don't want the "other side"to see, would be foolish to trust "the cloud",actually, what is "the cloud" any way ?


Agreed. I stated that I only back up /home, but I failed to mention that I only back up to physically secure personal hard drives.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-26 06:35

cuckooflew wrote:I don't use it,and don't trust it.
+1

Facepalm is a large cloud-based service - it keeps backups of all Your photos, movies, posts, and it's Very Well Secured against unauthorized access :lol:

But, to be honest the same applies to Google, Microshit, and practically every other cloud company - their business is based on selling user data. Maybe not directly stealing (at least not always) - but they are analyzing the data, searching for trends, predicting human behaviors, etc. Such data can be sold to advertising companies or used to manipulate elections.

Large servers farms are consuming a lot of energy + maintenance costs -> There's no such thing as "free" cloud storage - You're paying with Your data.

----------------------------------
I have Raid10 (4 HDD) for redundancy and 2 external HDDs for backups - so I can proudly show a middle finger to all those cloud companies :mrgreen:
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby bester69 » 2020-06-26 12:06

RU55EL wrote:Interesting. I backup only /home. It takes me about 15 minutes to perform a clean install. In fact, I always perform a clean install when upgrading Debian versions. I do keep /home on a separate partition.

please!!!, 15 minits take you to put the cd installation on....

look, a zero/clean installation might take easily 6-10 hours or so.. lets see..

0 - Installing a Livecd.. 20-40 minits
1 - Updating, most of times it has to download again almost all packages,:this might take 1-3 hours
2 - you've to configure your system (sudoers, crons, fstab, etc.. sources.. etc).: this might take 1-3 hours
3- Installing debs apart (opt's like libreoffice..), and applying some tweaking.: .this might take 1-2 hours

So, Ii best of cases: 20 mints + 1hour (updating) + 1 hour (configuration) + 1 hour (others) = 3 hours (best cases)
worst cases = around 6-7 hours
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby bester69 » 2020-06-26 12:10

cuckooflew wrote:I don't use it,and don't trust it.
....But I still don't trust it my self.

We're talking about backing up system installation, there's no data in the backup, only packages and applications..

furthermore, nowadays, when you make a data cloud backup with most of backup tools, you use tokkens-keys and passwords, so it uploads the backup in a encrypted way... its absurd to be scare

for example, I backup my data in the Box cloud, Box has two steps authentification, but furthermore, I upaload a duplicity backup tha requires password..but furthermore the sensible data I have it encrypted with encfs within the duplicity backup repository.. and you exclude the key file in the backup so its impossible for none to hack your data.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby bester69 » 2020-06-26 12:21

RU55EL wrote:Interesting. I backup only /home. It takes me about 15 minutes to perform a clean install. In fact, I always perform a clean install when upgrading Debian versions. I do keep /home on a separate partition.


I backup Home dat with borg in another partition and then every three months I make a deduplication cloud backup of borg repository into Boxl cloud, by using duplicity (rclone backend) .. First upload of home backup (are around 6Gb) it takes some days to upload, then next uploads takes only some minits or hours.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-26 12:35

bester69 wrote:look, a zero/clean installation might take easily 6-10 hours or so.. lets see..
I fully agree - it takes 2-3 days for me ... (very complex setup)

bester69 wrote: furthermore, nowadays, when you make a data cloud backup with most of backup tools, you use tokkens-keys and passwords, so it uploads the backup in a encrypted way... its absurd to be scare

for example, I backup my data in the Box cloud, Box has two steps authentification, but furthermore, I upaload a duplicity backup tha requires password..but furthermore the sensible data I have it encrypted with encfs within the duplicity backup repository.. and you exclude the key file in the backup so its impossible for none to hack your data.
This is all about statistics - in 99.9999% of cases the only encryption used is https ;)

I don't think that cloud companies will try to decrypt users data, because they don't care about single cases - but it's not true that they can't do this.
If You have thousands of CPU cores at disposition, then even trivial brute force methods can break Your passwords in hours. With pre-calculated rainbow tables for most popular encryption algorithms it will take seconds.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-26 13:18

Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Google knows a lot,
God, our Father knows all, maybe ask Him ,
…one flew east, one flew west,
One flew over the cuckoo’s nest.

I am not the right colour, so my life does not matter ?
to God it does :)
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Posts: 434
Joined: 2018-05-10 19:34
Location: Some where out west

Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-26 14:53

That senator behaves like a blind man who is trying use a .44 gun to shot a fly buzzing near his ear - the coroner will find it a suicide, not an extreme stupidity.
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby RU55EL » 2020-06-26 16:12

bester69 wrote:
RU55EL wrote:Interesting. I backup only /home. It takes me about 15 minutes to perform a clean install. In fact, I always perform a clean install when upgrading Debian versions. I do keep /home on a separate partition.

please!!!, 15 minits take you to put the cd installation on....

look, a zero/clean installation might take easily 6-10 hours or so.. lets see..

0 - Installing a Livecd.. 20-40 minits
1 - Updating, most of times it has to download again almost all packages,:this might take 1-3 hours
2 - you've to configure your system (sudoers, crons, fstab, etc.. sources.. etc).: this might take 1-3 hours
3- Installing debs apart (opt's like libreoffice..), and applying some tweaking.: .this might take 1-2 hours

So, Ii best of cases: 20 mints + 1hour (updating) + 1 hour (configuration) + 1 hour (others) = 3 hours (best cases)
worst cases = around 6-7 hours


OK, think about it. First off, a clean install, not an install from zero. The disk is partitioned with /home already loaded with my data and system settings. Also, I use a USB 3 flash drive to install from and the computer's internal drive is an SSD. So, the root partition gets formatted and Debian gets installed to that partition, while /home is ready for the system, so is not formatted and when the system is installed, all my personal settings and internet browser URLs are ready for use.

How long does it take to install plain Jane Debian from a USB 3 flash drive to an SSD with a reasonably fast machine with plenty of RAM? Not 6 hours!

[edit] Do you build your Debian system from source code?

1 - Updating, most of times it has to download again almost all packages,:this might take 1-3 hours


A point upgrade (such as Debian 10.3 to 10.4) which may involve something like 75 packages shouldn't take more than one or two minutes assuming you have fairly good internet bandwidth.

2 - you've to configure your system (sudoers, crons, fstab, etc.. sources.. etc).: this might take 1-3 hours


Cut and paste sources.list (if needed) and root .bashrc and .bash_aliases, other settings are drawn from /home.

3- Installing debs apart (opt's like libreoffice..), and applying some tweaking.: .this might take 1-2 hours


90% of what I use is installed with the desktop, settings are pulled from /home. (I do usually spend about 15-20 minutes sometime later uninstalling games and stuff I don't use.) Command line installed programs are installed from a text file listing them...# apt install [paste text file here]

Anyway, I've gone off on topic enough. Although it is interesting how differently we install and use Debian. [/edit]
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby bester69 » 2020-06-26 19:00

RU55EL wrote:...

Anyway, I've gone off on topic enough. Although it is interesting how differently we install and use Debian. [/edit]

Having a SSD as you have, i buy you those times..

In my case, it can take me a long day to install from zero to achieve my complex installation..
See..
- Install debian from Kde Netrunner so i get a debian 9 + kde plasma clean ( 1 hour)
- upgrade and switching sources to debian, and dropping non debian packages.. (3 hour)
- Creating snapper structure snapshots and configuration, for snapper-gui (1 hour)
- Mapping btrfs subvolumes for home, root, and data folder, and adjust fstab ( 30 min)
- installing specific kernel and specific microcode and firmware versions ( 40 min)
- Install Playonlinux (all i386 packages), and make it work ( 1-2 hours)
- Install a specific Libreoffice non repository version ( 40 min)
- Install/drop packages from synaptic backup to match my installation ( 2-3 hours)
- Setting all rclone cloud providers connections (1 hour)
- Setting PLasma rules and other configurations (30 min)
- Installing Kmail, and configuring imap google account and folders (1-2 hour)
- Installing snaps and flatpaks applications (1-2 hours)
- testing all apps (browser, media players, works) (1-2 hours)
- testing most scripts works , and create secrets folder (40 min)
- system settings adjust (like grub, xorg, sleep post/pre scripts, sudoers, mpd, gufw firewall rules, cron.daily... and much more..) (2-3 hours)
- installing java oracle, and card reader firmware, and testing all works and connects.. (1 hour)
- installing , configure lesmos recoll index (1-2 hours)
- Installing virtualbox specific version (40 min)
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby DebbyIan » 2020-07-13 11:28

What are people on?
Despite all the hype about the cloud, it's not particularly cost-effective. It's still cheaper to backup stuff locally and then you also have total autonomy over your data. Second, it's not as if internet access is that ubiquitous or cheap for that matter.
Clouds are typically here today and gone tomorrow, if you'll pardon the euphemism. Second it's a hell bent way for users to become "hooked" on a service so that they become reliant on it. Sounds like a drug to me.
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Re: Anyone else backup whole system into the Cloud?

Postby RU55EL » 2020-07-13 15:24

DebbyIan wrote:What are people on?
Despite all the hype about the cloud, it's not particularly cost-effective.


Gmail provides you with 5 GB of cloud storage for free, and I don't think Google is going to disappear anytime soon. I do however agree that it is much more secure to use an external, or local drive.
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