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Even Linus thinks Debian is hard to install

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 18:17
by mzilikazi
In an interview even Linus Torvalds is spreading FUD about Debian.
So the only major distribution I’ve never used has actually been Debian, exactly because that has traditionally been harder to install. Which sounds kind of strange, since Debian is also considered to be the “hard-core technical” distribution, but that’s literally exactly what I personally do not want in a distro. I’ll take the nice ones with simple installers etc, because to me, that’s the whole and only point of
using a distribution in the first place.


Does no one actually try the bloody installer??

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 18:47
by craigevil
The last time Debian was actually "hard" to install was Woody. Now the installer isn't much different than any other distro.

I will take a Debian netinstall over a multi-disk distro that takes hours to install along with multiple reboots any time.

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 19:01
by swirling_vortex
A curiosity: which is your favourite distribution, and which on e do you consider more secure?

Linux Torvalds wrote: I don’t really tend to care much, I’ve changed distributions over the years, and to me the most important thing tends to be that they are easy to install and upgrade, and allow me to do the only part I really care about - the kernel.

So the only major distribution I’ve never used has actually been Debian, exactly because that has traditionally been harder to install. Which sounds kind of strange, since Debian is also considered to be the “hard-core technical” distribution, but that’s literally exactly what I personally do not want in a distro. I’ll take the nice ones with simple installers etc, because to me, that’s the whole and only point of using a distribution in the first place.

So I’ve used SuSE, Red Hat, Ubuntu, YDL (I ran my main setup on PowerPC-based machines for a while, and YDL - Yellow Dog Linux - ended up the easiest choice). Right now, most of my machines seem to have Fedora 7 on then, but that’s only a statement of fact, not meant to be that I think it’s necessarily “better” than the other distros.

Oh c'mon, you've got to be kidding me. How can you not like Debian? From that attitude, you'd think he'd be running something like Linspire for Xandros. :)

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 19:07
by DeanLinkous
Yea, I read that....it would lower Torvalds on my list but honestly he is at the bottom with many others anyway so no big deal.

I wondered why I have seriously considered dropping linux(the kernel) and I am pretty sure it is him and his attitude more than anything else I dont like.

But I admit he may be the savior of the future world and I simply the pissy-eyed monster that cant accept a reasonable approach to the issue. IOW - it may just be me.
;)

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 19:25
by mzilikazi
DeanLinkous wrote:
I wondered why I have seriously considered dropping linux(the kernel) and I am pretty sure it is him and his attitude more than anything else I dont like.

I too have seriously considered dropping the Linux kernel. GNU/kFreeBSD anyone?

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 20:08
by DeanLinkous
mzilikazi wrote:GNU/kFreeBSD anyone?

Yep, got it right here. Still trying to decide if it is that or possibly opensolaris in hopes it goes v3. Nice to see I am not the only one....

At other times I think to stick with linux just to spite torvalds and make sure he knows that a freeloving hippie only loves his kernel because it is free software!

:D I am such a confused person...

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 20:17
by swirling_vortex
I would seriously consider running kFreeBSD except it's uses FreeBSD 5, which doesn't have a wifi driver. PC-BSD (& FreeBSD) look more promising with each release and I almost switched to it completely until I found out that the nvidia driver for FreeBSD doesn't let me use virtual consoles (black screen with bouncing "Input Not Supported" box).

However, I won't let Torvalds opinions affect my computer usage. If he quit working on the kernel for some reason, the entire linux project wouldn't just collapse.

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 20:24
by mzilikazi
swirling_vortex wrote:I would seriously consider running kFreeBSD except it's uses FreeBSD 5, which doesn't have a wifi driver.

Lots of short comings w/ the kFreeBSD kernel. For that matter w/ FreeBSD in general. It just doesn't support all of the hardware that Linux does.

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 20:27
by perlhacker14
After reading this, I was a bit shocked. Torvalds has not used any real distribution; only those cruddy half done ones which are copycats of the real ones. Debian is hard to install? Hard to maintain? WTF! Debian is one of the easier things to install out of all; FreeBSD, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch? When will Torvalds use those and Debian and get a real opinion based on facts?
As to all of you who want FreeBSD or a FreeBSD kernel: I would advise against it, mainly because half the packages require tweaking and there are a ton of odd quirks when combined with Debian, which was desigined with the Linux kernel in mind.
It is always best to research and experiment to form a valid opinion.

EDITED FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 20:42
by DeanLinkous
swirling_vortex wrote:However, I won't let Torvalds opinions affect my computer usage. If he quit working on the kernel for some reason, the entire linux project wouldn't just collapse.

yea, I feel like that.....until I have to read yet another interview with the guy... :D

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 21:13
by garrincha
Linus Torvalds is probably suffering from the "grumpy old men" syndrome as he is approaching his middle age. He will soon be joining the creativity bankruptcies trend mill with the likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs (both amazingly born in the same year - 1955).:wink:

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 21:50
by Bulkley
The easiest installer I ever tried was for Storm Linux 2000 (Stormix, now defunct). It was basically insert CD and click OK. I have often wondered why Stormix didn't release it to Debian. It could have eased the pain of many a newbie.

Frankly, I wonder why dying companies don't release their proprietary code to open source. Instead they take it to the graveyard of ideas. Corel and Libranet come to mind.

Re: Even Linus thinks Debian is hard to install

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 22:05
by Chapter 6
So the only major distribution I’ve never used has actually been Debian, exactly because that has traditionally been harder to install. Which sounds kind of strange, since Debian is also considered to be the “hard-core technical” distribution, but that’s literally exactly what I personally do not want in a distro. I’ll take the nice ones with simple installers etc, because to me, that’s the whole and only point of
using a distribution in the first place.


Does anyone actually read words literally anymore? Linus says that Debian has "traditionally been harder to install." In other words, he's saying that Debian used to be difficult to install in the past. He's effectively saying that he does not know what Debian is like now, and that he's never used it because it has 'traditionally" been difficult to install.

Personally I'm surprised by some of the hypocrisy in this thread. I've read posts by some of you elsewhere, where you've said yourselves that Debian was not a good distro for the beginner. This debate has been waged on these forums repeatedly over the last year or so. So it's somewhat shameful to be pointing fingers at Torvalds for buying into the "elitist Debian" distro propaganda that many of you help to propagate.

By the way, I'm not saying that Linus is a beginner. He obviously isn't.

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 22:19
by actionM
Chapter 6, you love Torvalds and you want to have his baby!

Re: Even Linus thinks Debian is hard to install

PostPosted: 2007-07-17 23:22
by mzilikazi
Chapter 6 wrote:Does anyone actually read words literally anymore?

Is Linus so busy that he cannot take the time to become at least slightly familiar with the subject at hand before forming an opinion or does he always let someone else form his opinions for him?

Linus Torvalds wrote:So the only major distribution I’ve never used has actually been Debian


This says to me in a literal sense that Linus has never even used Debian and yet he has the audacity to say that the installer is not simple. From where does he get his information? Perhaps you agree w/ Linus that Debian is difficult to install?

I have never told anyone that Debian is not for beginners. Anytime I convert a Windows user to Linux it's not Ubuntu or Mandriva or PCLinuxOS - it's Debian. My son uses and can install Etch by himself. Additionally he has root on his own box and does his own upgrades. If a 9 year old can do it then kernel genius Linus can.

I regard Torvlds' opinion of Debian in the same light as I do those of my aquaintances, family, co-workers and so on who all say "Linux is too hard" and yet not one of them has ever used Linux......

Exactly worthless.