What is a "Real" Debian User.

[rickh]

I have a problem referring to Debian as an OS. Linux is an OS ... Debian is a distribution which uses the Linux OS. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but it's not correct.

I just corrected the second point of my paraphrase of Krafft's, Reason's to Use Debian, in the OP to more correctly reflect what he actually said.

[CocoAUS]

I have a problem referring to Debian as an OS. Linux is an OS ... Debian is a distribution which uses the Linux OS. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but it's not correct.

I just corrected the second point of my paraphrase of Krafft's, Reason's to Use Debian, in the OP to more correctly reflect what he actually said.

Debian is an OS. Linux is a kernel. NT is not an OS. Darwin is not an OS. If anything, you could say Debian uses the GNU OS, since that's what people actually use. And with Debian GNU/Linux, Debian GNU/Hurd, Debian kFreeBSD, etc...Debian is still Debian.

You know, I don't think anyone who doesn't know the difference between a kernel and an OS is a real Debian User.

[Issyer]

I have a problem referring to Debian as an OS. Linux is an OS ... Debian is a distribution which uses the Linux OS. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but it's not correct.

Maybe Linux is an OS, I don't know and don't care. I use Debian. To make the things clear, we won't go far. On the page http://www.debian.org/ , we can see

What is Debian?

Debian is a free operating system (OS) for your computer...

Debian uses the Linux kernel (the core of an operating system)

Developers called Debian OS.

EDIT---------------

I just noticed from rickh's quote of DD, Martin Krafft

You should probably choose something else if:
- You are new to Unix.

What is Unix? Definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

Nice Doctor, I would say. If I am new to UNIX, I will choose UNIX itself then.

[rickh]

The "OS" is the most rudimentary interface between the hardware and an end user. Like many things, there is a gray area at exactly where it begins and ends, but a Linux OS would include the kernel, a console, and arguably the X-windows core system. No more.

Desktop environments, and their associated applications constitute a subjective core of higher level tools to make the OS more usable for the average person. In the Linux environment, those "collections" of higher level tools are referred to as "distributions." Debian is one.

[Issyer]

The "OS" is the most rudimentary interface between the hardware and an end user. Like many things, there is a gray area at exactly where it begins and ends, but a Linux OS would include the kernel, a console, and arguably the X-windows core system. No more.

Desktop environments, and their associated applications constitute a subjective core of higher level tools to make the OS more usable for the average person. In the Linux environment, those "collections" of higher level tools are referred to as "distributions." Debian is one.

If you insist on that, then this argue refers not to us, Debian users, but to a higher level located here.
You'd better make it clear what you want to say. Otherwise only confusion is happening.

[CocoAUS]

You'd better make it clear what you want to say. Otherwise only confusion is happening.

Don't worry about it. He's spent this whole thread making sure he can define terms his way and make sure everybody knows that, regardless of real/relevant definitions, his arbitrary definitions are the definitions. With the result, of course, that the definitions are so arbitrary as to serve no purpose and hold no meaning whatsoever.

[llivv]

Chomp on this bit for a while.
GNU/Linux

[JohnDeere630]

Chomp on this bit for a while.
GNU/Linux

or this: mountain out of a molehill....sheesh, lighten up folks!

[rickh]

He's spent this whole thread making sure he can define terms his way and make sure everybody knows that, regardless of real/relevant definitions, his arbitrary definitions are the definitions.

That's the first time I've defined a term, and I've felt it was necessary ever since Lavene's post. (Un)fortunately, words tend to have fairly specific meanings, and, especially in conversations where people are likely to have varying native languages, it's sometimes necessary to make sure that the participants are using them synchronously.

When I learned computer technology terms, there was a clear distinction between the OS layer and the Applications layer. I think that distinction is still useful. I certainly don't believe that RedHat, Debian, Suse, and Slackware are examples of different Operating Systems.

Edit: Hmmm! Sometime between the last time I checked this thread and now, a post by Telamachus disappeared. It included a comment something like:

People are just taking cheap shots.

I'm certainly not bothered by it. The two folks who are being the most quarrelsome have been referred to by me at some time in the past as "being less than useful," so they're entitled to be disagreeable if they so desire.

[Telemachus]

Edit: Hmmm! Sometime between the last time I checked this thread and now, a post by Telamachus disappeared. It included a comment something like:

People are just taking cheap shots.

Yeah, I deleted it shortly after I wrote it. I said pretty much what you wrote above, and then I decided it wasn't really worth even saying that because I wasn't going to get through to people who just wanted to quarrel. Anyhow - you're not crazy: it was there for a bit.

Edit - Two other random ramblings: first, the teacher in me has to say this: you don't mean "synchronously" above (which means "at the same time") but "synonymously" (for "with the same meaning"); second, now I want to read the post with the "less than useful" comments. Any hints where that might be?

[Issyer]

"being less than useful,"

Nice try, buddy-boy. You scared a lot of newbies from this forum with your Krafft and a mentor attitude as it was referred to you at some time in the past.
Don't take it personally, though. Nobody is obliged to do anything to anybody here. Or maybe you think you deserve a kind of a reward, I don't know and don't care actually.

[Bro.Tiag]

Man I've love this thread, such a diverse group of opinions, who really knows what side to come down on. I've no problem with the term "real" however one wants to define it. Then again, I'm a Man who does not eat Quiche.

[txHarleyMan]

Then again, I'm a Man who does not eat Quiche.

Maybe not, but you're a democrat and that, my friend, is even worse!

[Bro.Tiag]

Maybe not, but you're a democrat and that, my friend, is even worse!

And what, my good man, would incline you to think that?

[txHarleyMan]

Maybe not, but you're a democrat and that, my friend, is even worse!

And what, my good man, would incline you to think that?

Wisdom, my friend. Wisdom.

[rogerdugans]

I have now read through much of this thread, and now I do understand what some folks have mentioned elsewhere about "elitism."

I run Debian on my laptop. Have been running it for a little while now.
I might be changing the distro at some point in the near future, but at this point I am so happy with how it is running with Etch, I think it is unlikely that I will.

Debian is an excellent distribution, and there is a plethora of useful information here in this forum.
That is why I am a Debian User, preface that any way you like.

But I am a "distro whore"- only thing I am fairly committed to is running linux- the distro I choose at any given time or for any given purpose can very widely, because there are a lot of good ones.
And sometimes I find that there are choices that are better than Debian for certain situations.


Does that make me a "fake" Debian user?
The fact that I am not committed to using Debian on all of my machines, and that I don't think Debian is the "perfect" linux distro?

I don't think so, but maybe some of you do.
Doesn't really bother me, as none of you get to decide how I use the machine or what I run on it.

(Note that while there are <ahem> a few signs of elitism in this thread, there are more signs of people who just like using Debian and are quite good at it.)

[Bro.Tiag]

Wisdom, my friend. Wisdom.

Then it is Wisdom that you lack, for I have never voted for a member of the Democratic Party in my life.

[txHarleyMan]

Wisdom, my friend. Wisdom.

Then it is Wisdom that you lack, for I have never voted for a member of the Democratic Party in my life.

Then I must lack wisdom..... but I don't think so. Furthermore, I bet you eat Quiche every day.

[Bro.Tiag]

eat Quiche every day.

Do not project your short comings on others.

[txHarleyMan]

eat Quiche every day.

Do not project your short comings on others.

Don't worry; I'm not nor do I intend to.