Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

What is a "Fake" Debian User?

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
Message
Author
User avatar
canci
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2502
Joined: 2006-09-24 11:28
Has thanked: 136 times
Been thanked: 136 times

#46 Post by canci »

rickh wrote:...I often use Google to search for "man <progname>" Almost without fail, I find an expanded man page with appropriate examples...
OK, maybe I didn't really make my point here. Sorry for not being very clear. When I was a n00b and didn't
know how to seek help (cuz that's something you have to, naturally, learn first) I'd go around and ask ppl
in forums or IRC channels, etc. Some of them helped me by saying: "Search the boards, search google, search
howtos, THEN ask questions!". Which is cool. Others again, and these are quite frequent, just diss you w/a
very lame comment so that you feel like crap for even asking help. I've seen it happening on this forum as well
(though not so frequently) and I think that as an open source family we should be different in this respect.
Of course, it's alright to diss flagrantly lazy ppl who abuse your kindness, but mostly it isn't this. Many Windows
users for example have never learnt how to ask for help properly. It's "call the hotline for instant help"
and not "we'll help you a li'l bit so you can help yourself"

And, yeah, the man pages are not always very inteligable for desktop users, hence the need to google
for howtos after being puzzled about man pages. Of course, it gets easier with time, but not always.
Some have very cool examples underneath (gzip, 7z, zip,...), others are just a bit cryptic. I get a bit
frustrated when I see ppl giving advice to n00bs like "read the man page and don't waste oru time" for
things like cron that really need a more thorough intro. I kinda get the impression they're making fun of them.
Image Stable / Asus VivoBook X421DA / AMD Ryzen 7 3700U / Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx (Picasso) / 8 GB RAM / 512GB NVMe

READ THIS:

* How to Post a Thread Here
* Other Tips and Great Resources

User avatar
rickh
Posts: 3434
Joined: 2006-06-29 02:13
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA

#47 Post by rickh »

I kinda get the impression they're making fun of them.
lol. That could be true.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97

User avatar
stoffepojken
Posts: 705
Joined: 2007-01-25 01:21
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

#48 Post by stoffepojken »

My first RTFM learned me to read the manual. I am very grateful for that

User avatar
tbint62
Posts: 61
Joined: 2007-12-08 18:56

#49 Post by tbint62 »

I want to be a "real debian user"!!...........what is "OS"?........
End User!
()

Lantesh
Posts: 11
Joined: 2008-03-12 19:14

#50 Post by Lantesh »

I'm new to this forum, and being my second post I sure don't want to step on any toes, but this has got to be one of the dumbest topics I've ever read. Anyone who uses an operating system is a user of said system. Personally I am not a Debian user. I'm a Ubuntu user because quite frankly it's easier to use. I love to build computers and play with hardware, but I am not as proficient with software, and honestly I don't desire to get involved with it to the level that some others do. People have different interests, and just because someone doesn't ever attain a certain level of knowledge about their respective OS does not mean they are a "fake" user, or that they don't have something to give back. This whole conversation stinks of elitist crap. No offense intended to anyone of course. :)

User avatar
garrincha
Posts: 2335
Joined: 2006-06-02 16:38

#51 Post by garrincha »

Mean Dean a.k.a souneedalink in Life of Debian User also involved are Wise man #1 Rickh, Wise man #2 Lou and Wise man # 3 Lavene. Someone has to be Biggus Dickus...:lol:
Maurice Green on Usain Bolt's 9.58: "The Earth stopped for a second, and he went to Mars."

User avatar
souneedalink
Posts: 666
Joined: 2008-01-02 17:45

#52 Post by souneedalink »

garrincha wrote:Someone has to be Biggus Dickus...:lol:
that would be Lavene.... :shock:

User avatar
rickh
Posts: 3434
Joined: 2006-06-29 02:13
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA

#53 Post by rickh »

I thought he meant Lantesh, the Ubuntu user ... It's real easy to make bitter accusations of "elitism" when you have nothing to take pride in yourself.
Last edited by rickh on 2008-03-13 03:28, edited 1 time in total.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97

User avatar
garrincha
Posts: 2335
Joined: 2006-06-02 16:38

#54 Post by garrincha »

:lol:

RM Stallman as the messiah talking to his faithful atop the hill and there is a gangly group of people at the back of the crowd who were having trouble hearing the Stallman's Sermon on the Mount. Ubuntu users, MSoft users (scratch that), Debian users, Mac users all hearing different version of chinese whisper.
Maurice Green on Usain Bolt's 9.58: "The Earth stopped for a second, and he went to Mars."

Lantesh
Posts: 11
Joined: 2008-03-12 19:14

#55 Post by Lantesh »

rickh wrote:I thought he meant Lantesh, the Ubuntu user ... It's real easy to make bitter accusations of "elitism" when you have nothing to take pride in yourself.
Ah but I do take pride in my computer. I built it from scratch. I don't believe in buying off the shelf. Granted it's getting a bit long in the tooth these days, and I could use a new mother board and processor, but the point is I put it together myself, and it's constantly evolving as any true builder's PC does. I am also intelligent enough to have configured a dual boot system with Win XP and Ubuntu 7.10, and I have done my share of tweaks. I do however enjoy the simplicity of Ubuntu, or I would use Debian. I apologize if I came across as harsh.

Lavene
Site admin
Site admin
Posts: 4958
Joined: 2006-01-04 04:26
Location: Oslo, Norway

#56 Post by Lavene »

souneedalink wrote:
garrincha wrote:Someone has to be Biggus Dickus...:lol:
that would be Lavene.... :shock:
:shock:

I don't even *want* to try to interpret that one...

Mikuro
Posts: 159
Joined: 2007-12-16 04:56

#57 Post by Mikuro »

Some of the man pages are pretty much indecipherable for someone who's not already an expert, though. Ever tried using tcpdump? That man page makes it about 10x harder than it needs it to be! It's not helpful for learning basic usage. So I recommend not R'ing that FM. (Google will help you, though.) tar's manual is also a bit thick (helpful, yes, but thick).

Granted, tcpdump is a tool that is, because of its very nature, not going to be used by novices. But even for an experienced user like me, the man page is hardly an efficient way to learn. One simple sentence can help me more than reading that man page for 10 minutes. Most beginner questions can be answered with one sentence.

I find that man pages in general are not efficient ways to learn. They're meant more as references than tutorials. I think the tendency to just say "RTFM!" is born from the basic flaw in human nature that makes us want others to go through the same trouble we had to ("if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you!"). But time marches on, and things are supposed to get easier over time. As an experienced user, you can help make things easier.

Of course, different people learn in different ways. Maybe for some people, reading man pages and wrestling with configuration files is the ultimate path to enlightenment. But please understand that this is certainly not true for everyone.

Lurker
Posts: 209
Joined: 2007-03-22 23:29
Location: Portland, Oregon

#58 Post by Lurker »

Lantesh-

You should read the thread before you post.
Better yet, read the thread this one is counterpoint to.


Miss, I'll have another, mmm, drier this time.
Thank you.

User avatar
EMD
Posts: 983
Joined: 2007-06-10 03:03
Location: /dev/tty7 (Don't deny it. You're here too!)

#59 Post by EMD »

garrincha wrote:Someone has to be Biggus Dickus...:lol:
I have a few friends who struggle with their MS Windows Vista computers and I would love to give them a Debian installation CD, but I don't. I give them Ubuntu CDs instead.

And the reason why I give them Ubuntu CDs is because it is so difficult to find good newbie-friendly information on how to accomplish routine tasks in Debian. The knowledge-level at Ubuntu Forums may be lower, but at least they trip over themselves to answer newbie questions. Here you get laughed at for not being a "Real Debian User."

I'm NOT arguing that the operating system should be "dumbed down." I'm arguing that the documentation should be "smarted up." As I suggested in a previous post, if you don't want to type the answer to a newbie question more than once, then type it only once and place it on the Debian Wiki.

If that makes me "Biggus Dickus," then add it to my list of labels: "Fake Debian User," "Biggus Dickus" ... anything else you care to call me?
.

User avatar
garrincha
Posts: 2335
Joined: 2006-06-02 16:38

#60 Post by garrincha »

:lol:

In case one wasn't aware of who is Bigus Dickus.
Maurice Green on Usain Bolt's 9.58: "The Earth stopped for a second, and he went to Mars."

User avatar
bluesdog
Posts: 2077
Joined: 2006-02-01 09:02
Location: Similkameen, British Columbia, Canada
Been thanked: 1 time

#61 Post by bluesdog »

edoviak wrote:..Here you get laughed at for not being a "Real Debian User." ..
Really? Honestly, I've not noticed.

I'm not claiming to be aware of all the posts here, but of the ones I've seen, most of the replies to newbies' questions seem fairly straightforward, if occasionally a bit terse.

Or maybe I'm thick-skinned.. :?
Tips & Tricks

Something more to read while waiting

If you obviously have not read THIS, don't expect too much...




*winter bluesdog....*

User avatar
mojoman
Posts: 598
Joined: 2006-10-15 18:43
Contact:

#62 Post by mojoman »

rickh wrote:
Second best solution: The Linux Phrasebook by Scott Granneman. This is most beneficial to newbies who need help with common commands, but can't be bothered to study on their own unless they actually spend money on the assistance.
I second that. I bought that book some two years ago when I started out and it helped a lot. I used it to get a good overview of useful commands and structure (mostly because I prefer old-fashioned books to webpages). I still find the odd useful bits and pieces in it.

Lantesh
Posts: 11
Joined: 2008-03-12 19:14

#63 Post by Lantesh »

Lurker wrote:Lantesh-

You should read the thread before you post.
Better yet, read the thread this one is counterpoint to.
Yes I have to confess when I posted my first reply I had only read page one. I didn't intentionally skip to the end. Unfortunately I was not feeling well at the time, and completely missed the fact that the thread was actually up to page 4. I hope that helps clear up my idiocy, doh!

Lavene
Site admin
Site admin
Posts: 4958
Joined: 2006-01-04 04:26
Location: Oslo, Norway

#64 Post by Lavene »

garrincha wrote::lol:

In case one wasn't aware of who is Bigus Dickus.
Duh! Of course! Forgot about Life of Brian.
Remember, it was banned here back in the days. Maybe our gouvernment has used some mysterious brian waves on us to make us forget about it? (Brian waves! Got it? Got it? Damn... I kill my self...)

User avatar
souneedalink
Posts: 666
Joined: 2008-01-02 17:45

#65 Post by souneedalink »

Lavene wrote:Maybe our gouvernment has used some mysterious brian waves on us to make us forget about it? (Brian waves! Got it? Got it? Damn... I kill my self...)
giggle giggle...biggus dikkus...giggle...giggle

Post Reply