What's up with Trisquel?

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What's up with Trisquel?

Postby Soul Singin' » 2010-03-22 01:21

One would think that one Ubuntu-based 100% Free distribution would be enough. Apparently, it is not.

Move over gNewSense. Here comes your twin sister: Trisquel. . :roll:
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby shadowking » 2010-03-22 02:13

"Until version 2.0, Trisquel used Debian Stable as the base for its development, using only the main branch packages, which are free of proprietary software. In 2008 we started the development of version 2.0, based on Ubuntu LTS"


That is already very bad:

- Duplication of effort
- Aims to be stable but really just broken in typical fashion
- Ultimately irresponsible ; users are again guinea pigs


What pisses me constantly is no problem or situation has a logical simple solution in linux. It can , but instead everything is made x100 more complex than needs be.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby oswaldkelso » 2010-03-22 02:18

Step sister more like. While gNewSense current 2.3 (I think) is Ubuntu based. gNewSense 3 is to be based on Debian. http://www.gnewsense.org/index.php?n=FAQ.FAQ#toc13

13. Will gNewSense 3.0 be based on Debian instead of Ubuntu, and why?

Yes, because:

* Debian separates free and non-free software better, so it's easier to make a fully free derivative out of it.
* Debian supports the architectures we want to support (e.g. MIPS).
* it suits our infrastructure better (easier development).
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby nadir » 2010-03-22 02:32

gNewSense 3 is to be based on Debian

that are good news. i tried gnewsense and it was cool.
i am done with the buntu-based ones...they all suffer the same diseases (for me).
when gnewsense is based on debian i will give it another try. of the buntu-based ones it was one of the better ones (hand in hand with backtrack, which is usable too.)

this
are good news too (though not related to gnu-free/not-gnu-free, but to debian- or ubuntu-based).
well: for me as a light-user.
Last edited by nadir on 2010-03-22 02:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby shadowking » 2010-03-22 02:34

Thats even worse because GNSense has no stable base and every derivative created inherits the flaw. So a spinoff does more harm unless it does thing really different.

In BSD it does less harm theoretically as the BSD's are stable; PCBSD / desktopBSD is freebsd , they never switch base . Even freebsd is backwards compatible with itself for a few years.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby shadowking » 2010-03-22 02:39

nadir wrote:
gNewSense 3 is to be based on Debian

that are good news. i tried gnewsense and it was cool.
i am done with the buntu-based ones...they all suffer the same diseases (for me).
when gnewsense is based on debian i will give it another try. of the buntu-based ones it was one of the better ones (hand in hand with backtrack, which is usable too.)

this
are good news too (though not related to gnu-free/not-gnu-free, but to debian- or ubuntu-based).
well: for me as a light-user.



Not good. Their userbase are guinea pigs to bad design due to petty obsessions. There is zero regard to backwards compatibility and that is what people need.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby nadir » 2010-03-22 02:41

two questions:
do you take legal or illegal drugs?
which distros are based on gnewsense (which would be the derivates)? a short search didn't gave me no results.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby shadowking » 2010-03-22 02:47

Its even more confusing than taking illegal drugs.

"It was originally developed as a Debian-based distribution, but the repositories were changed to Ubuntu with the 2.0 release, in the summer of 2008. The project hosts its own repositories which are derivatives of Ubuntu's main and universe components, but with all proprietary software removed. The differences include the removal of all non-free packages, the substitution of the original Linux kernel with the blob-free version linux-libre, and the addition of several packages."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisquel

Okay , So it was debian, then Buntu - now Buntu LTS. GNS was ubuntu and now becomes debian. Great. Makes illegal drugs tempting.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby nadir » 2010-03-22 03:06

Image
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2984 ... 035833.png
looks good to me.

but now i do remember bout gnewsense: it had the same apps that i use anyway, but way more.
about kernel-blobs: as i don't know what them are it would be ridiculous to care too much.
if i really want to use openjdk i may open a thread and figure out how it works. same goes for gnash. (i tried the libre-kernel, but had proplems with the headers, iirc). no need to change the OS for that.

might be confusing, but i don't think that much about it. all that will be long gone, and debian will still be there. hopefully.
if one wants constancy one is well adviced to use one of the big ones (minus the brown).
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby nadir » 2010-03-22 03:07

my main point: good info. thanks
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby julian67 » 2010-03-22 04:31

nadir wrote:two questions:
do you take legal or illegal drugs?


My guess is a volatile mixture washed down with cheap grain alcohol :D

Anyone who can get upset at every crappy derivative of ubuntu has to be practically foaming at the mouth 24 hours a day.

How shadowking can get so outraged about it is amazing to me. Don't like it? Don't agree with it? Don't use it! :roll: And if you use something else anyway then what is the problem? It's an irrelevance.

gNewSense isn't the only FSF approved distro, there are 8 others listed at http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html so there's a reasonable choice for anyone with issues about one or the other. I've tried some of them (not for a long time though) and Dyne and Blag and gNewSense all seemed really solid usable operating systems, so right there is a nice choice between a Fedora type distro, a Debian type and a genuinely unique type.

The "duplication of effort" argument is mostly and usually bogus. Distros are essentially packagers, only a few go beyond this. Why shouldn't innumerable different people package stuff? Packaging and distribution doesn't have any great impact on upstream development. It's a fairly neutral activity because the people doing it are doing something that doesn't happen upstream, where the end result is source code, and so is not diverting or duplicating resources. They might even offer some useful patches and at worst they're wasting their own time. The distributions derived from other distributions are out of the development loop of all the core elements of a GNU/Linux distribution, and ultimately don't much matter in those terms. But in terms of offering a fully free software distribution then, when there are only 9 known, surely more choice for the end user must be better. If someone is familiar with Fedora or Debian or whatever then it's good that they can choose a libre distro without re-learning the packaging system, rewriting their boot scripts etc. Until relatively recently there were zero GNU/Linux distributions which were strictly free. Now there are 9. Apparently all this duplication of effort and experimentation on poor victimised drug-addled guinea pigs (imo some rats too) is working out OK......
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby Parsifal » 2010-04-10 20:21

I would run gNewSense or Trisquel if I could. Unfortunately, some of my hardware (such as my wireless card) requires non-free firmware which I can't get from a fully free distro. As far as I can see, Trisquel is the better of the two because it brings out new releases more frequently and is therefore more up-to-date; however, I have only tried gNewSense. The reason I focus on these two in particular is because they are Debian-based (I count Ubuntu-based distros as Debian-based also), and therefore make use of APT, which I consider an invaluable tool. Since I can't run a fully free distro, I've made the switch from Ubuntu to Debian because Debian tends to have a stronger philosophy regarding free software.

Something which appears lacking in both distros, however, is organisation in terms of releases. Neither one seems to have a well-defined release cycle, whether feature-based like Debian or time-based like Ubuntu. Trisquel's version numbering makes no sense to me, and gNewSense doesn't have very clear information at all on how its releases work. Also unlike Debian and Ubuntu, the development cycle doesn't seem to be as open - this may simply be due to a lack of organisation in their websites which makes it difficult to find details on development releases, but it looks to me like Debian squeeze and Ubuntu Lucid are both easier to obtain than gNewSense 3.0 (which needs to be "upgraded" to from Debian lenny at present, from what I've read) or whatever version of Trisquel is coming next.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby Rolling Stone » 2010-04-17 19:28

^ Wireless cards are pretty cheap these days and there are plenty well supported by completely free software.

I've tried gNewSense 2.3 and it was OK but I'm really looking forward to 3.0. I'm currently using Trisquel 3.5 which isn't half bad at all, despite the fact it's based on Ubuntu.

Great thing there are these actually free distros too. Diversity is a strength of the free software movement.
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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby Bro.Tiag » 2010-04-18 01:38

gNewSense I can understand, Trisquel, what's the point (start as debian then go to ubuntu), but once squezze goes final debian too will be blob-free. IMHO, gNewSense &Trisquel have run their course, I don't know much 'bout Trisquel, but I've been following/testing gNewSense since it was a beta, and besides but for a hand full of militant FSFtypes it's not used much.

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Re: What's up with Trisquel?

Postby BioTube » 2010-04-18 02:15

What kind of system can you run blobless anyway? My graphics card alone needs three.
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