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Look at distrowatch.org where sidux has been falling for over a year now. Ever since all the crap happened in the irc channel.
Why you may ask is it still falling?
1) A primarily German speaking irc channel, yes you can get help in English but who is even going to try when you join #sidux all you ever see is people using German.
2) One of the most unhelpful and rude forums of any distro. Anything the devs/moderators do not agree with either gets censored or moved to the read only archives. After the OP gets flamed by all the fanboys and devs.
3) The lack of multimedia support on the forums from day one due to the unwise decision to host the forum on a German server.
sidux is the only distro's forum I have ever seen where any discussion regarding the dmm repo or mplayer is censored. Need to play a dvd too bad, can't play mp3s or avis too bad, burn a disk use a script GUIs are lame.
4) sidux was supposed to be a community distro, but it never was the devs never discuss and issues they just do things their way
totally ignoring what people want
5) sidux is Debian, what a load of BS, no aptitude, no Synaptic, no Gnome, no nano by default, there are many many differences between the way the sidux devs want ppl to do things and the way Debian does them. Need a separate /home when you install? Nope can't do.
God forbid you install any package that does not come with sidux by default.
The use of Greek gods as version names is all well and good but using the Greek letters to spell them especially on the wallpaper is just plain annoying.
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist" My Giant Sources.list
craigevil wrote:
The use of Greek gods as version names is all well and good but using the Greek letters to spell them especially on the wallpaper is just plain annoying.
I actually think that this is one of the best 'features' of sidux.
I can't stand wallpapers that have words on them. The scorpion is a good mascot for sidux, you never know when it will bite you.
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist" My Giant Sources.list
I don't use sidux because I grew wary of small team distros after Mepis and Kanotix. I can count on Debian being there and don't have to worry that the distribution will switch to Ubuntu or Stable.
wtf they have to ask before they can use the name? Yeah that's real open source. freaking idiots. They should change the name to Moronix.
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist" My Giant Sources.list
craigevil wrote:wtf they have to ask before they can use the name? Yeah that's real open source. freaking idiots. They should change the name to Moronix.
Thanks craigevil. I have thought: "Perhaps it is me who has got a strange point of view. Perhaps it is ok or normal to see it that way... even when doing free software and such". But that was my second thought.
My first was: "Wtf?" Followed by:"Explains again why they don't get along with each other".
Like said: i didn't understand very well, but it might be the next name will be phoenix.
In case it matters...for those few years
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
craigevil wrote:wtf they have to ask before they can use the name?
Yes, if they assigned the trademark to another party then they have to ask, or at least they have to desist from using it if so requested.
I don't think it's odd that they assigned the trademark to a non-profit foundation which supervises and administers the project. What seems odd is that the foundation and development team managed to allow such a catastrophic breakdown in communication and complete divergence of views about what the sidux project is supposed to be doing, or maybe how. This is especially odd because there seems to be at least one person who serves in both capacities. Having served on a non-profit board with a similar purpose (not in IT) I can appreciate that the board's view can diverge from the staff/management view but that's why you have regular meetings and discussions. Usually those end with agreement, and anyway should hardly ever be over deal breaking differences because the overarching mission should always be clear to everyone involved from day one. If it is the case that the staff refuse to help fulfil the mission set out when the foundation was formed then they have to be replaced and they certainly don't get to take the trademarks with them or have any claim to them. The other side of the coin may be that the foundation is so poorly run that its members need to consider resigning and allowing the board to be reconstituted. If nobody is interested then it's time to wind up the project. If you have a very bad board which won't acknowledge its deficiencies then the staff might as well jump ship and carry on under a new name (if anyone is interested).
My guess is that unless the creation of the foundation was done in an amazingly naive manner (distinctly possible) then this kind of screw up is only possible when important responsibility or position is assigned to some absolutely bloody minded and impossible individuals, whether on one side or the other.
Wisdom from my inbox: "do not mock at your pottenocy"
"aptosid"? Egad. A study in elegance.
In any event there is a brief discussion of it on Distrowatch this morning. I ran sidux (God help me, with smxi -- don't tell!) and I finally left because of the inane behavior on the forum. The greatest strength? A very nicely done user's manual to which I still refer for certain things.
Everybody has to live somewhere, so may aptosid prosper.
julian516, glad to see you like the manual, I created that with bluewater behind the scenes during some heavy months of planning and coding.
I did it on one condition, which he always respected: that my name be kept out of it, that I wouldn't ever have to deal with or interact with the core devs, none of whom actually know how to do HTML/CSS coding though a few think they do. It was only with some pretty major behind the scenes pressure that I was able to get it to evolve to its current format, the devs if left to their own preferences would have ruined it totally.
Bluewater has gone on to add more features since I left the project, but in the end I had to somewhat forcefully tell him I refused to help him anymore since I simply could not stand to help or deal with sidux on any level.
But it still cracks me up that they are so proud of that manual, yet can't stand me, so I thought what finer time to rub some nice salt in that old wound. Bluewater to his credit did and continues I supposed to do a really good job editing it, though last I checked the navigation was no longer clear and intuitive, ie, you had to know that many items were there to find them. But I don't look anymore.
Re their secret dev process, where basically one or two core guys set all policy without any public discussion or input, no published dev communications, and a VERY nasty secret dev irc channel, where I used to sit watching them insult various people before I got sick of it and stopped wasting my time tracking it, proves to me that the words 'free' and 'open' have little meaning if you yourself do not engage in free and open development processes. The secrecy and boys private club mentality, coupled with the autocratic character of the devs, is all you need to know why everything around them blows up consistently, why individual users who try to work with them all leave, or are kicked out, and I'm sure accounts for why the ev got sick of them too. There's a long list now of damaged goods these guys have left behind them, at least one if you do some research you'll find has a very bad history re foss projects, today eV is simply the latest in a constant stream of such events. If you can't see this pattern you probably haven't followed them very long. Problems and virtues tend to flow down from the top, and this group is no different, when it was good and growing, the leader was clear and open, when it degenerated the leader had too.
They picked the right logo, that's for sure, these guys I wouldn't trust with anything, or anyone, at least not until they kick out the core problem guys, the ones who get off on their authoritarian garbage and secrecy and non-openness so heavily.
Happily their new name is so absurd that it will never roll off the tongue, and signals broadly that this is for geeks only, non others need apply.
But we learn and go on, now I know the warning signs, never deal with people who talk about freedom and openness but who never practice what they preach beyond following the technical rules for gpl software and licensing.
Sidux always had in the past one good quality, its users, which is why I decided to keep supporting them, and why most of them from what I can see still use my stuff, which I find amusing. And yes, I'll put in support for this recent change when I get time to do it, why not?
But in the process, by the way, I'll remove a lot of legacy cruft that makes especially smxi a bit too focused on sidux. As always, for those who hate or dislike or find stupid the smxi concept, that's great, it's why it's not written for you. I like the fundamental notion as outlined clearly by RMS that the end goal of all software freedom is not imposing one's values on end users, but rather the freedom of the end user to do whatever they want with their own systems. i have always respected this value and freedom, and will continue to respect it.
By the way, I also agree with a lot of the thread commentators about the weird rules and decisions these guys make, just because they can. The lack of nano for example was brought up over and over, but always ignored. I tested aptitude, and though I'm not a big aptitude fan, I've switched all my systems to use it because I think it's a better way to run sid if you're a power user type. Another ex siduxer, who now makes the liquorix kernel (because the sidux guys consistently hassled and discouraged him from learning and exploring and sharing), for example has always upgraded in X, something I think is not really safe for regular users, but is clearly totally fine for power users who understand that when core components upgrade you have to restart X, at least in sid/testing. or close apps that are upgrading, and so on. A bit too much to assume safe for regular users, but by no means requiring hard and fast rules.
And I certainly don't install ats or whatever now, it's either debian or ubuntu depending on what the people want or need, and one or another Debian for my own use, I run etch, lenny, testing, and sid on various machines depending on what I want from them.
In my own work, I've tried to add in as much support for as many methods as I can support sanely, with the end goal of always respecting the true freedom 0: the freedom of the user to do what they want with their system.
I just read h2's post, and i like it a lot.
It is a lot of words, but it is worth reading them.
I did not ever follow the sidux-project for longer than a short time, but whenever i do i got a strong feeling that it is the way he describes it. So i stop using it or thinking about it immediately. It makes me feel sad and angry.
That would be my main problem (besides the complete absence of being friendly):
...proves to me that the words 'free' and 'open' have little meaning if you yourself do not engage in free and open development processes.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
Exactly why h2's scripts run on all of my systems. These really are excellent tools. Perhaps because I learned using sidux I just routinely use the cli to update and upgrade. I trust this process a good bit more than automated "update centers", which I think of as nags. In my experience if I decline a particular update the "center" then nags me about it until I accept the pointless update. There is just no need for such convenience, if such it is.
h2 certainly knows more about the sidux terrain than most of us do. I agree with nadir, any reader wanting to explore it would be advised to read h2's post carefully.
craigevil wrote:
Look at distrowatch.org where sidux has been falling for over a year now. Ever since all the crap happened in the irc channel.
Why you may ask is it still falling?
1) A primarily German speaking irc channel, yes you can get help in English but who is even going to try when you join #sidux all you ever see is people using German.
2) One of the most unhelpful and rude forums of any distro. Anything the devs/moderators do not agree with either gets censored or moved to the read only archives. After the OP gets flamed by all the fanboys and devs.
3) The lack of multimedia support on the forums from day one due to the unwise decision to host the forum on a German server.
sidux is the only distro's forum I have ever seen where any discussion regarding the dmm repo or mplayer is censored. Need to play a dvd too bad, can't play mp3s or avis too bad, burn a disk use a script GUIs are lame.
4) sidux was supposed to be a community distro, but it never was the devs never discuss and issues they just do things their way
totally ignoring what people want
5) sidux is Debian, what a load of BS, no aptitude, no Synaptic, no Gnome, no nano by default, there are many many differences between the way the sidux devs want ppl to do things and the way Debian does them. Need a separate /home when you install? Nope can't do.
God forbid you install any package that does not come with sidux by default.
The use of Greek gods as version names is all well and good but using the Greek letters to spell them especially on the wallpaper is just plain annoying.
This from the guy who trolled me out of nowhere in the linuxquestion forums
craigevil wrote:How does sidux not support pretty much anything thats in Debian?
Jackiebrown spouting crap on the sidux forums isnt enough? We get it you do not like sidux.
...
many people use gnome, e17, lxde any lots of other desktops/wm in sidux, just because there isn't a separate installer for a silly de/wm doesn't mean they don't support them.
because I said
JackieBrown wrote:
craigevil wrote:Actually sidux rocks. Does Debian have the 2.6.27 kernel?
I'm pretty sure the freeze would effect a new kernel going into Debian right now.
You can't compare like this. Does sidux support the 100 gnome packages or the enlightenment one? Does sidux support 3 branches and 12 archs (not including old-stable and experimental?)
I'm not knocking sidux, just comparisons like that are meaningless.
By that standard, Ubuntu is better than Debian since they have the 2.6.27 kernel in intriped and better than sidux because it supports more packages.
Seriously, most people know at one time I was a big sidux fanboy. But between the crap that went on in the irc channel last year, and the continuing rudeness and closed minded attitude in the sidux forum I gave up.
I also realized Debian by itself was more stable and the Debian kernel is much more stable than the slh kernel in sidux.
sidux/aptosid or whatever it is called now; is a quick way to install sid.
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist" My Giant Sources.list